Wrestling Observer Live with Tom Zenk 
WOL Recap 12/13/2000
Guest: Tom Zenk (voted guest of the year by WOL listeners)
Hosts: Dave Meltzer and Brian AlvarezTom Zenk joins the show. Dave Meltzer asks how Minnesota is reacting to Jesse Ventura working with the XFL.
Tom - Dial up KQRS - KQ92 and see. It used to be Golddden Valley radio - they just have fun with him - drive time morning radio. I get up at 5 in the morning and they just grill him. His demographic is blue collar white sock 18 - 29 year olds. He got about 46 percent of that category in the vote - I think they were sick of the second generation politicians.... He surprised everyone. He just went out there and shook hands and kissed babies, just like a wrestler. He knew how to work a crowd. He does a good job - he's the only Governor I ever got cash back from. So he did something for me. And we've got a surplus. So Jesse's a good guy.
Dave - What are your thought about him working for Vince?
Tom - Jesse can do what he wants. I respect him. I've seen many guys worse than Jesse. He's in the same category that I put Owen Hart and Mick Foley in. He supports his family and he's a good guy. And he's the Governor - but the XFL deal? He knows about Vince McMahon - he worked for him. He was owed $830,000 royalties from PPVs and had to take a lawsuit against McMahon to get his money - Jesse has a nice wife and kids and family - why would Vince want to disturb his life like that? I'm guessing Jesse hooked him for money.
Dave - Huge money. Jesse's going to be the star of the XFL and the whole league is going to be built around him.
Tom - But Jim Ross is the better announcer - Oh, That's wrestling. Sorry! (laughter)
Jim Ross, piqued that McMahon is building the XFL around Ventura instead of him.
Dave - Well you know Jim Ross knows football better than Jesse.
Tom - Oh yes, he sure liked all the wrestlers who played football.
Dave - Now Tom, WCW is about to be sold.
Tom - I heard it was a done deal from Terry Taylor through another source...
Dave - I heard it was 99% done this afternoon. I heard that Ted Turner didn't want the sale to go through until February but Turner doesn't really follow wrestling that close - and he thought come February the WWF might become vulnerable so that might be a chance for a turn around because WWF are going to devote so much attention to the XFL.
Tom - You've got it....
Dave - So he was wanting to hold onto it until February and that might be a chance to make a comeback. But its not going to happen ...
Tom - But how come they never came up with this - Vince runs the North East and WCW sticks below the Mason-Dixon line. Run that angle. Two big super powers with Ted down south and "we push out kids" and do the southern gimmick. That's what they do anyway. Who was the first guy that ever get a push in the south until Eric came along. What Yankee got a push down south. Can you name one off hand Dave?
Dave - not off hand...
Tom - You scramble now. I've got time (humming a tune...)
Dave - Luger! Luger!
Tom - Yeah, Luger (from Buffalo) but he was really a Florida boy. Built like a Greek God, my goodness..
Dave - So what was missing. Luger had the look. You knew him well.
Tom - Yeah he had the look but he couldn't work. He always made big money so ...He was the clique. He was playing a game. That's as plain as I can say it.
Dave - He's still there!
Brian - All kidding aside ...
Tom - And we are kidding - this is sports entertainment!
Dave - But Lex Luger does have amazing genetics. We always joke about genetics because so many of these physiques are roids but you could fill a person full of roids and they couldn't look like Lex Luger
Tom - Nope, nope and he works really hard at it. He's a really hard worker. I liked the Narcissit gimmick - he could take that off really good. It was a natural for him. Not that he liked it but he knows how to play the part. He's funny. I got along with him, I rode with him, I got along with him in the ring - he never hurt me -he was good to work with - but I think the aesthetics of his ring movements maybe wasn't good for drawing money....
Dave - But now he's getting older, he's gotten really slow. He doesn't like to take bumps. It's hard to watch his matches.
Brian - he doesn't seem to want to go all out....
Sting and Luger - 'made by Flair' - but not made well enough to outshine him
Tom - Wasn't he groomed by Flair? Flair built him. That's the whole thing- Sting, Luger, Flair - the triangle. That's what I've got figured out. They've got something going on. Who made them ?
Dave - Flair made Sting and Luger...
Tom - (laughs)
Dave - But he didn't make them good enough.
Tom - Precisely and I wonder why. You've heard the old cliché about the broomstick. Naitch is the best. Anyway, Vince should runt eh North East and they should run the south east. And get the best of both worlds. Because there is an audience - the hard core RASSLIN fans that I like - as you point out in your newsletter, when the Copperfield special (that pre-empted WCW) didn't draw - there's a 2.0 to 3.0 rating down there for the taking. That's why WCW should hang on to the show. What's you honest opinion of Bischoff's chances of success.
Dave - If I was betting, I would bet against it. I hope it works because the business needs it really bad - but whoever goes in there, unless they've got a ton of money. They're going to need that sort of money for the first few years. And they're going to need to create some new stars. They've squandered Goldberg...
Tom - But who did they have work with him? Has Flair ever said Hey I could help this guy out? Has Hogan ever put his foot forward?
Dave - Hogan worked with him once...
Tom - That was mighty big of him ...
Dave - Let see, Flair worked with him in some house shows but they never worked a big match program but Flair got hurt or something before they could do anything ... So what are your thought. If you were put in charge of WCW ...
Tom - Well that will never happen...
Dave - I know that. It will never happen for me and Brian either but we're going to try and come up with some ideas too. We put your letter to Brad Siegel up on the Observer site, with some idea of what could be done the only problem is it would have been better if you'd written it a few months ago and if Siegel had read it then because I think they've just thrown their hands up in the air ....
Tom - Sure sure .. that's entertainment. I'm just putting my thoughts down on record. I know the deal - it's just too bad Flair and Rhodes etc., missed the deal with their egos and families - it weighs heavily on my mind sometimes, it really does.
[commercial break.]
Dave - I read about A Rod (Alex Rodriguez) signing a $252 million contract - and while the wrestlers now are making really good money compared to in the past, but compared to football players, baseball players and basketball players, they're still not in the league. And I think the reason is largely, the lack of unionization. What do you think?
Tom - Well you know what I think. I think they need unions. I think Ventura already knows it. He's quoted in Playboy saying hookers need a union, and I'm sure Vince has learned his lesson and I'm sure Jesse is going to push for unions in the XFL. Jesse's got a SAG (Screen Actors Guild) card - so he knows the value of unions - just like Jesse's demographic the 18 - 29 year old voters. Let's be honest, with all the bodies piling up in wrestling, what's it going to be like in the XFL- The Hotel California - with dead players and Dick Ebersol, Governor Ventura and Vince McMahon looking on? Is there going to be a double standard - or the same rules for wrestlers as for the XFL.
Dave - Well he's not drug testing the football players - I know that.
Tom - Does he drug test the wrestlers?
Dave - Of course!! In the contract he has the right to do so. I think in extreme circumstances, he might , on occasions. But realistically is there any drug testing now - NO!
Tom - Right! And we're not independent contractors. If you're not there on time they can fine you ...You have to go to the town, you have to be there on time, you have to wrestle, they give you cheap flights.....
Brian - didn't Vince just buy himself a new plane ....
Dave - Vince pays what he has to pay. Vince only began paying guarantees because he had to to keep the talent (against WCW raids). But now - who in WWF wants to go to WCW. So he doesn't have to ... I'm sure that the guarantee Rock is under is nothing to the money he's actually making. So unlike with Bischoff, when things got bad, WCW lost all that money because they had those big contractual obligations, if WWF goes down, theoretically, in the next year Vince's guarantees are low enough, he's not overextended, I don't think.
Tom - Sure. He's real clever....... And so are the politicians. They can't even get the count right. We can send a man to the moon but they can manage a count.....
Dave - Yeah, I thought it was real straightforward. I never thought it was like professional wrestling. Maybe Verne Gagne rushed the polling booths, that's the problem. Hey, what does Verne Gagne do anyway - do you hear anything about him?
Tom - I have no idea. Once in a while he has something on with the old timers. And Ed Sharkey's been in the City Pages - just a cute article about Eddie that tells it like it is - about the 'carnies' - and how he started in the carnival and the circus with the 'carnies'. I went to Eddie's camp and I also had to go to Verne's camp - so I learned it from the carnies plus I learned the respect part from Verne Gagne. I had to get in there with Brad Rheingans - he made me puke, he had me in tears, aaand you had to tap out and submit - a monster. Verne - he's old and Greg III guess is selling cars out on 494 at Metro Mitsubishi. That's the funny thing about wrestling - Hulk Hogan and these guys fall victim to the same thing. Remember when Bockwinkel wouldn't drop the belt to Hogan...(and now Hogan and the rest refuse to put over the younger talent). And then Hogan signed with Vince and that started the whole WWF thing. And Verne was crying foul that he couldn't compete with a millionaire. Then Billionaire Ted bought into the WCW and Vince was crying like Verne Gagne - "I can't compete with a billionaire." Now Ted Turner is gone and we've got billionaire Vince, he's got the XFL and its going to be built on the wrestler's backs, just like Vince's bodybuilders federation. It all seems to go around in circles but it doesn't seem to get a lot better for the boys.
