Listeners' Poll
Tom Zenk
Greatest Guest Ever
Dave MeltzerOn 16 October, 2000 Wrestling Observer Live listeners voted Tom Zenk best guest in the history of the show. The final count was Tom Zenk 48%, Raven 22%, Jim Cornette 11%, Ric Flair 10%, Bad News Allen 10%. Announcing the poll results, Meltzer conceded that the vote was 'overwhelming' and a 'landslide' but chided his listeners saying "I wouldn't have voted for Zenk. I would have voted for Bad News Allen."
On Bret Hart....
Z - What's going on? I hear you were just talking about Bret Hart. What happened to him? I just saw him on TV and he doesn't look so good... Is he punch drunk or is he out of it? Or did some one take the wind out of his sails, you know what I'm saying ...?
DM - He got somewhere between 5 and 7 concussions in a three week period - and yeah, he's punch drunk in many ways.
Z - What is that attributed to - who got him? - potatoed or what?
DM - Everybody thinks it probably started at Starcade. Goldberg kicked him in the side of the head - it was like a mule kick. And he was all groggy and everything but you know, being a wrestler he continued to wrestle for a couple more weeks. And he wrestled a match with Terry Funk, where he took all the hardcore stuff with the garbage cans and everything. He wrestled for like two more weeks, had headaches and went to the doctor and the doctor said oh my gawd, you're screwed up and they tested him and finally told him you've had seven concussions in three weeks. There's probably a good chance that he's done....
Z - He is done! He's gotta be done, if its like that .... And he lost his wife too?
DM - Yes, that happened too.... and his brother ..
Z - Gawd. It all comes at once ..... it kinda comes in threes, huh! That's the old saying. Well, that's too bad,
DM - And his career got screwed. He went to WCW for all that money. And then the minute he got there, somehow he came in, drew a big buy rate with Ric Flair and the next thing you know the program's over.
Z - Well that's typical for down there. They like to kill stars. They cool you off. It's the top guys that manipulate it, YOU know that!
DM - Oh yes.
Z - You can't be competition. Look at Benoit. He could do NOTHING down there, He played the game. He was a nice guy, great body, looked good. But nothing happened. Well, he's doing good now!!!! [in WWF] What I couldn't understand is - he had the same finish - the sharpshooter - like Sting. And then you had Sting, Hogan and Bret Hart - "the best there was, the best there ever will be." Hogan, the biggest ego, the best. Then you had Ric Flair. Couldn't they have done a four way gimmick or tournament, like a 'fight for the finish'? They had a ready-made gimmick there, didn't they? Ho did they fumble the ball there? What happened?
DM - Yeah they had ready made stuff. It was very poor booking.
Z - Who was the booker then, Sullivan?
DM - Eh, when Bret came in - who were the guys who were calling the shots then?
Z - I don't know. I'm asking you! You're 'the most credible guy in the wrestling industry'. I read that on your web page!! (laughter) Wade Keller was quoted as saying that but Wade Keller's a geek - nice guy but, I mean, he's not Dave Meltzer.....
DM - That'll get me more heat...
Z - Well, I'm trying (laughter)
DM - No, realistically, I think it was Hogan who called that shot. Flair did some unbelievable interviews. They put him in a pay per view but with 3 weeks to go which was not enough time. They did some face to face interviews. They were excellent. Hart was good but Flair was out of this world. The match drew like a 1 buy rate which it had no business doing. All of a sudden, the next thing they wanted to do was to team up Ric Flair and Bret Hart together. Which was weird because their program was going so good. So they started this program for like 3 weeks, 4 weeks with Flair and Hart saving each other. But before they even worked one tag team match, they decided to take Ric off TV and Bret off TV. What does that tell you? So there you go. And it was never the same after that.
Z - Wow! What did I tell you! There you go!
DM - And remember when [the A&E documentary] "Wrestling with Shadows" came out, they had a golden opportunity to jump start him off that movie. Repackage him. Instead they kept him off TV for several weeks after the movie because they were afraid the fans would cheer him, because of the movie. And they didn't want that, so they took him off TV. And then when Owen died, for better or for worse, they had a golden opportunity to market him as a babyface And they made him a babyface for about a month and then Russo went and turned him heel. After his brother died and with all that sympathy towards him.
Z - Oh for the love of gawd.
DM - That's Bret Hart's last couple of years.
Z - Oh boy! No wonder. That would make you take Prozac. Bret seemed like the kind of guy that just always wanted to be figured in. That was the wrap on him from the boys. Not so much the money. Bret just wanted to be part of it. He loved it. He was second generation. It was in his blood. You know what I'm saying.
DM - Yeah. In the WCW he made all kinds of money and was never figured in.
Z - But the whole point was - it's like Kenryu told me in Japan (impersonation) "You come here. You make big money. You take money home. Work hard. Company must make money first." So if the company doesn't make money, and you're not for the company, they really don't need you, right?
DM - Yeah ... if you're not a team player, sure.
Z - I mean, that's how business works. But these egos and that. I guess WCW is not in too good a shape there. What about this Mandalay Sports?
On WCW's sale ....
DM - Mandalay Sports looks to be the prime suitor of WCW.
WCW may be sold because of the AOL merger and because they're losing ungodly amounts of moneyZ - About $80 million this year, eh!
DM - Yeah $70 - 80 million, They're looking to sell. And Mandalay with Eric Bischoff, look to be the prime suitor - they're not the only one's apparently. The deal's not done yet. I heard a lot of people who expected it to go down Wednesday but it did not. And the feeling was that if it didn't happen Wednesday, they wouldn't announce anything until the 23rd [October] because everyone's in Australia. I got a call by the way, right before the show, from one of the guys in Australia, kind of in a panic, wondering what's going on. They're all in Australia and nobody knows who owns the company, nobody knows if they're going to have a job when they come back. Except the top guys know they will.... but they're all in Australia and everyone is going crazy because nobody knows what's going on. Which is really great for the guys.
...a fire sale to the arsonist?
Z - OK Dave. But to be serious. Hypothetically OK... what do you make of a business that employs someone, gives them a huge salary. He then brings his friends in on multi-million dollar salaries, runs the company into the ground with $80 million a year losses, until the company is worth nothing. And then the parent company sells the company to him and his new backers at rock bottom prices. Now who's the fool? Is Seigel that stupid?
DM - Ha Ha. Do you know what was so funny - was when the Bischoff name surfaced.
Z - Bischoff! He was a loser announcer for Verne. He was a coffee boy. I never had any respect for him.
DM - I know but ..
Z - He never created talent... He's a mark. But you see there's still that Jason Hervey connection too [at Mandalay].
DM - Well, that's the Mandalay connection right there
Z - Jason Hervey wrote or faxed a fancy letter to Bill Shaw or Bob Dhue putting him over - that they wanted him for a game show host or a producer out in Hollywood. That's what helped slide him into the spot in WCW.
DM - That's how he got the thing in 1993-94 - after Watts got the boot, that's right.
Z - Yeah.He was kind of a handsome kid. He was skinnier then. Now he looks like a chubby mushy fat arse. I think he had his run with fun, y'know. How does that work?
DM - How does that work? Well he got in, he had success and then it wasn't successful.
Z - He had success? He STOLE all the talent. Vince's kid said it the best, You know " the genetic TackHammer" The kid. He said it best - that his dad made all the talent. And none of the guys have done anything in WCW. Hall-Nash? Without Scott Hall, what's Nash? (laughter)
DM - Well we've learned that!!!
Z - The cardboard cut out [of Hall] got a bigger pop than Nash, right. (laughter) What do they call him - The Breck Girl - because he's always doing his hair.
(laughter)
Z - And it's like, wow, don't you get it. Those Turner people. I've gotta believe they're naive, and kinda markish but come on.
DM - Well after 12 years, I think that they are because, think about this one, Vince Russo in one of his last acts, or potential last acts, made himself World Champion.
Z - Where do they pick up that kind of stuff. I think they learned from Dusty and those kind of people.
DM - I think when you're a booker and also on-air talent, you naturally think "Well, let's do something to get me over." Whether it's Dusty or Hogan or Vince McMahon or anyone whenever they were in charge and on-air talents they dominated the television.
Z - (impersonating Dusty) "Well listen baby, why did Vince Russo put his face on television?"
Dusty's big blotch ....
DM - We're back with Tom Zenk, he was about to do a Dusty Rhodes impersonation.
Z - "Listen, baby, I don't have time for that. Ma son is sitting home collectin' mail box money and I'm out here taking bumps on the road for ECW and ma Turnbuckle Promotions, if you weel."
(laughter) DM - That was pretty good.
Z - I heard a lot of his stuff, boy. I never SOLD for it but I had to HEAR it. I usually liked to stare at him because he was so obese, he'd pull out those shirt-tails like a fat broad. And then he'd pull that hat down so you could see those scars on the forehead that he was so proud of, that drew all that money. Now what happened to him? Spent every dime that he ever made? He's still taking bumps at 56?
BA - What's that thing on his side?
Z - That big black gimmick?
BA - The blotch.
Z - I don't know. Is it a birth mark?
DM - I don't know. I just got a whole bunch of 1970s wrestling magazines that someone sent me. So there's pobably a photo of Dusty when he first broke it. And I think he didn't have it then. Maybe like it was painted on??
Z - No - painted on? - no!!
DM - I was just teasing of course ...
Z - I was going to say.... The best thing they ever did was to cover him up in that polka dot suit. I thought that's when he was in his prime.
DM - Yeah, prime of humiliation?
Z - That's what I mean. I guess he was so embarrassed. Magnum TA told me that was the most humiliating thing he'd ever had to do in his life.
DM - That and Saffire [the obese black ring valet]. When you look back on that one, they paid him - after he lost his job in WCW - they paid him a LOT of money and put him over - but boy they [Vince McMahon and Pat Patterson] got their jollies out of it, didn't they!!
Z - Oh yeah, he fished a turd out of the toilet - "the son of a plumber man, baby. (laughter) This is the 'Merican Dream Dusty Rhodes." Look at the way he treated Ric Flair. C'mon. Now Flair has a legacy. I listened to that interview you did with Flair. And you put him over like no-one. And I know you're a mark for Flair - just like I am, right?
The Flair legacy...
DM - Oh yeah!
Z - He [Flair] is the best bar none. Hogan - oh yeah, he drew a lot. But he took his vitamins and said his prayers. OK. That's been exposed. But Flair night after night, in the ring, out of the ring, partying. Have you ever seen a Ric Flair party, or him at a bar?
DM - Yes, many times ...
Z -Well then you know the commotion. The money flying, (impersonating Flair) "40 kamikazes, 40 kamikazes, Z-Man, Pillman. C'mon over here. Bring those ladies. Listen brother, God love you brother, you're my hero" He was fantastic to do that night after night after night. But what I want to know is - I saw his haircut. So if Ric looks like David, does that mean David is more like Ric? You notice the haircut?
DM - Well they shaved his head and it's grown back to that level.
Z - Why did they shave his head?
DM - Russo did it, theoretically, so Ric could come back and get great revenge on Russo, right.
Z - OK. So they're like buddies, right.
DM - What, Ric and Russo?
Z - Yeah. He gave him a hell of a match. He didn't give me as good a match as he had with Russo on television. (belly laughter) He didn't!! I'd like to believe I was some kind of threat to him. I mean, he held me down in a front face and I remember Cornette telling me the finish and 'Natch' had to get a strong win on that TV show which would show before the PPV. And all that baloney. You know, I never minded about losing - I lost and I'm still a loser - It didn't affect me, it was about the cash. (laughter) But he gave Russo a hell of a match. (laughter) And I was thinking "Oh no, what kind of a deal do they have going on. And he sold for him too. I'm sitting watching TV saying Oh my god ...
BA - And that was Russo's first match ever.
Z - Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So all the clichés that Flair could have a match with a broomstick. (laughter) Yeah of course its true he's the best
DM - El Gigante, Bischoff AND Russo!
Z - Yeah. Can you imagine? I'm a mark for Flair too. But now with his son. And I know you don't want to touch on it. Or it's probably bad. But gee, David don't you know the legacy that your father has left behind. I mean, those are big shoes to fill. Look at Greg Gagne, look at Mike Graham, look at Dusty Rhodes' kid - the runt of the litter - look at Erik Watts. And now it's Ric Flair's kid!!! You know the obstacles he's got to overcome
DM - You know the saddest part with David is that they rushed him out there, and with almost no training. David Flair is RIC FLAIR'S SON. You've seen it before. In certain cities, like Charlotte or Gainesboro, with the right build up, he could have meant something, like the von Erichs in their home cities. He could have meant something is he was just a competent worker that people saw as someone on the rise, But he was out there and the poor guy, unfortunately, became a joke from day one. He's out there as a comedy figure. But it's like, it's really sad.
Z - It's really sad, but Ric he also got humiliated or they did the wrong thing with him in the WWF. You know how they take the edge off you up there and you have to play Vince's game. And it was Hogan's town up there. Hogan couldn't perform like Ric and take a guy and do an hour Broadway. Flair can do it. But what I'm saying is, he's got to be careful to go out with some style, for gawd's sake.
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The interview continues next week - Part 1| Part 2 | Part 3
