Hosts - Rich and Andrew

Intro - We have a very big guest, one of the biggest wrestlers of the late 80s and early 90s, one of the most popular wrestlers, - he's  wrestled in the old AWA, WWF, WCW, Japan- he's wrestled all over the world; he's wrestled with Martel, Bulldogs, Pillman, Flair. He's out of the business now but with a lot of things to say about it......his thoughts on Dusty Rhodes and Ole Anderson, and he distinctly has an opinion on what's going on nowadays - a lot to say. Yes. its Tom Zenk, the Z-Man!!

Andrew - You're originally from Robinsdale, Minnesota. Robinsdale produced Curt Hennig, Ric Rude, Bob Backlund, Ric Flair, Jesse Ventura, Animal of the Road Warriors, etc. Why did so many great wrestlers come out of that area?

Z - I think there were steroids in the Robinsdale water (laughter). Verne Gagne himself went to Robinsdale. His show was real popular with the gym crowd. Ric Rude, Animal, Hawk, Darsow etc., went to Ed Sharkey's camp. Ed Sharkey was a former pro-wrestler who came up through the carnival etc. He worked his way up that way. Sharkey was bouncing at Granma Bees over at Minneapolis. Rude and Hegstrand were bouncing with him .They bugged him because wrestling was so popular round here. "Hey, how do we get in the business?" They had nothing going on..... bouncers in bars, like we all were. And Eddie ran a camp - a few guys got in. They did good...  "Hey lets get in here  - that looks good." That's how it kinda just multiplied.

Andrew - I didn't mean to slight Barry Darsow -  Krusher Kruschov, Smash of the Demolition..... Hey Barry if you hear us we didn't meant to slight you. We don't want you coming down on us with the golfclub that was your last gimmick ....

Z - .... The Blacktop Bully

Andrew -  and The Repo Man

Z -Yeah, he'll pull out his wedge and whack you (laughter)

Andrew - First time I saw you wrestle was on the old WPIX Pro Wrestling USA show when Verne Gagne and Jim Crockett got together to try and fight Vince McMahon when he went national ...How was it like wrestling on that USA Pro show?

Z - It was really the minor league....They weren't prepared for Vince's big machine.  No-one could match his production quality. He stands alone because it was always his money behind it.   Verne didn't have the money to throw at it, he didn't have the production values. He had ESPN - is that the show you're talking about?..... Verne was getting old and tired.... and like a lot of second generation sons Greg [Gagne] didn't have the horsepower or the drive of his father  to take it over. He jumped on Sgt. Slaughter's gimmick with the camouflage - they were just very ill prepared. But for me it was just somewhere to get a start, making a living out of pro-wrestling. You've got to do what you've got to do, right?

Andrew - Some people say if Gagne had the foresight to stop Hogan jumping to the WWF the entire wrestling history would be different  now..

Z - Martel told me this. This is second hand now. They were out in Arizona and Hogan got a contract by Fedex from Vince McMahon for $100,000 a year for 10 years. That was the original thing that made Hogan jump. But I think what Hogan doesn't understand - or he's got way over his skis - or his ego's out of whack - he wasn't put over by Bockwinkel and now Hogan won't put younger guys over when its all over for him. I mean, Hogan was the greatest, the best ever, whatever.  I mean I couldn't sell out a phone booth much less a flea market - okay - so I'll cut myself down Hulkster if you're listening. "You know Bro" - I don't care, I'm out of the business so I can talk like this - but these internet people have got me going again and I want to clear the air on a few things.  I mean that's what made Hogan jump - he got a push by McMahon, just like Razor Ramone and Diesel. McMahon can create the stars and then WCW buys them back and just trashes them and doesn't use them right. So its kinda come full circle.... Vince stole talent from Verne.... Verne couldn't compete. Verne didn't want to pay money.. I never had to sign a contract until I was in the WWF.  It was always done on a hand shake before. So THAT changed the whole wrestling world (legally contracting the top guys for long periods).

Andrew - Verne was a very old school guy ........

Z - Kayfabe went right out the window and the only time Vince wanted to bring back kayfabe, I think, was when The Sheik and Jim Duggan were caught riding together and then the heat was on ...... You're got to fight for the business, live a lie but the second generation guys really made a mockery of the business. We always had to lie when people asked "Explain Greg Gagne, explain Dusty Rhodes' kid, explain Erik Watts." We had to lie "Oh he's a great wrestler. Oh,  it's in the gene pool" whatever.

Andrew - As long as Pop was running the company..... Tom before you get to anything else, we have a couple of callers ...

Caller - Corey - I heard that Triple H was going to turn face. When is that and where?

Z - I give up! I don't know. I haven't talked to Vince today yet!!! But I got my crystal ball in the basement. (laughter)

Caller - Rob - You got to work with Vince McMahon and a lot of people say he's a real jerk backstage - what do you think?

Z - Good question - You couldn't get to Vince. Vince was around but he was like the king - you had to go through the little stooges - Patterson, Garea, Lanza  - he's got his little underlings ....its like the mob ..he's the top guy - you can't get to him to tell him what you think, you've got to go through the connections. Vince was around, walking around with this cheap green suit or blue suit (he didn't have his neck brace on at the time) and tennis shoes. He's protected. I don't know whether he was a jerk or not - I just wanted to know if my paycheck was in. All I was working for was the cash. But as far as 'a jerk',  I have no comment - I have no enemies in this business. I just have a lot of memories and I have knowledge. As far as Vince ... he was fine but he was cheap - he didn't pay me right

Andrew - Rick Martel was recently on another wrestling talk show and gave his version of why the Can-Am Connection - yourself and Rick Martel - split up and why you left the WWF. And he made some comments which I don't want to get into -

Z - That's okay ... fire away -  I can take anything.....

Andrew - basically what he said was that you were starting to get a big head and that Martel had to talk to you and there was a memo that performers weren't allowed to wear jeans and you wouldn't listen and that you went from making $50 a night in Portland to thousands in WWF and that you didn't really appreciate it. And that there was an argument over your attitude and that Martel found a note with the keys to the rental car saying "Good-bye .."

Z - I did leave him a note. I told him "Thanks for the opportunity." I think the 50 dollars a night was from his promotion [IWA, Montreal] that was going under at the time. I think that's why I was getting 50 bucks a night. I don't think it was Portland... I don't think I ever got $50 a night in Portland .... unless maybe in Salem. No. I'm sure Rick knows by now, 10 years later, he's festering and mad that he made the wrong decision.... He signed his own deal. He went behind his own business partners' backs and signed a contract with Vince. And he got me the opportunity. But we had a deal. Japan - the first time they saw us, they said "Forget about WWF! Baba will take you here." And it would be a great deal - comparable to the Bulldogs - I believe they were getting 5 grand a week from Baba and you could come as much as you wanted, you know, one month on, one month off. 

[Editors note - This week (June, 2000), Misawa - one of AJPW's top stars - revealed that a major factor contributing to recent mass desertions from AJPW has been that top AJPW workers currently receive only $1,000 per match. (Misawa's salary in 1999 was $190,000). By these figures, Baba's offer of $1,000 a match each to Zenk and Martel in 1986, indicates the high regard Baba had for the Can-Am Connection. The offer was clearly attractive to Zenk (whose only money guarantee from WWF was $50 per TV show). The fact that it wasn't attractive to Martel adds to suspicions that he had his own more lucrative private arrangement with WWF].

We went to Japan in the Fall of 86 for the tag team tournament. After the first night we did a job -  no, I did a job for the Funks - they wanted to put us over if we wouldn't go to the WWF - Rick said - "No no - we've got to go there[WWF]." So obviously, he had a good deal (with WWF). So I said "Wait a minute. I said how about we take Japan. Let's reconsider." [Bear in mind that the only guaranteed money consideration in my WWF contract was for $50 per TV appearance]. He said, "No, No - if we're not making 5 grand a week after 6 months we'll tell Vince we have places to go". So I said Okay, fine.... 6 months. I could handle that. .... [and when the six months was up, and my money deal hadn't changed, true to my word, I left].

In the WWF you pay for your own rental cars, you pay for your own hotels, you get cheap plane flights - that was back 10 or 12 years ago - six o'clock in the morning flights. I think if you read the Dynamite's book -  the drug use, the steroids, the speed used to keep guys going. That was what a lot of guys did. That was just the prescription for working there..... How could you keep the schedule - where you're done at midnight, out of the arena, showered, eat, get a six o'clock flight in the morning - and they ran three towns a night. Now I beg to differ with anyone that says they're totally natural.... It was a totally different deal back then. And Rick Martel - when I left,  I didn't take any talent from him - he's forgotten more moves than I'll ever know - they teamed him up with a better partner - so how did I damage them? They said I was a quitter. But, the whole deal was about cash. Rick made his own deal. In Dynamite's book he verified the fact we got only $50 for WWF TV appearances...

Andrew - we talked to him about that ....

Z - well then you know - that was all the money consideration that was in my contract - it was $50. So I guess Vince was telling me there what I was worth. "Hey you're worth 50 bucks for being on my TV."  There was no money consideration nothing. You're supposed to humble, you're supposed to be  "happy to be there" - Really! ........ Rick made his own deal. In life we make choices. Rick made his choice.  I made mine - And you'll never hear me cry and you've never got me saying on tape that I complained about leaving the WWF.   I thought it was terrible -  the money and the travel.  Vince could have been better but he's only as good as you have to be. And he only started giving money contracts when Eric started stealing their talent..... 

Vince knows not to create a wedge in between the top guys and the middle card guys that are putting guys over. He knows to keep it close - only a couple of top 2 guys, Steve Austin, or The Rock - or only about the top 5 guys Hogan, Macho Man, Ultimate Warrior, that's the way he plays it, that's good management skills. Bischoff, he's a fool. That's how they're losing $61 million, or on track to lose it. They're just tricking Seigel. They're naive. The Turner people are nice. They did it to Jim Herd, Kip Frey - its just a con, its just silly, it so counter productive, its so wrong, its just awful.

Richie - Internet question - what do you think would have happened to your career, if Flair had stayed in control at WCW when you first came in. Now we all know it was he who recruited you, right ......

Z - I  think it was Wahoo McDaniel who worked for Verne that was one of the bookers and in the [WCW] office that knew me from the AWA days. And Wahoo was down there and I think Wahoo put the bug in Flair's ear "I've got a babyface for you." And I think that's how it came about when I was doing Japan. And I dickered about going down there. I held out for a 2 year contract for 156 thousand dollars a year. 

[Editors note - In WCW in the early to mid 90's, 'getting to 156' was considered a sign of having made it close to the top in wrestling. Thus, getting '156'  AND a 2 year contract was postive evidence that WCW wanted to push Zenk as one of the top 5 babyfaces in the company. In fact, this was stipulated in contract discussions prior to Zenk's signing. In comparison, it took Steve Austin, Brian Pillman and Mick Foley several years with WCW, on one year contracts, before 'getting to 156'.]

Meltzer's the one that told me what  I could get from WCW. I told him I don't know. I've been on the Japan bus, just happy to keep my wrestling career alive - just hoping and praying that I'd get another break and that it would be all forgotten about the WWF. I never wanted to go to WCW but I'd put all this time into wrestling and there were only 2 places to go. So I thought  I'm going to hold out for two years because I know in two years I can get myself over  - or not just be a white meat babyface like Shane Douglas, Johnny Ace, Pillman.. They all had only one year contracts.... I think the only time my career flourished was when Flair had stroke, because he knows about wrestling - he knows how to use guys that are handsome or whatever you want to call it. Take a look at Alex Wright - he did something for him - but the Berlyn gimmick? who saddled him with that ? - [Editor's note - The answer according to Wright is DDP.] You don't have many good looking guys that have natural looks and athletic ability. They've ruined him.

Host - and he can dance too...

Z- Well that was kinda geeky or silly....

Host - We loved that gimmick 'Dancing Alex Wright'.

Z - but you know -  the top guys tend to kill off their competition. That's the angle I'm going with. I mean I've seen it. How do you have a 15 year run on top without drawing money - are you stooging? are you burying people behind the scenes. Talk to me like a man. Look me in the eye and tell me what you're up to.

Caller - Andrew - Thank you very much for this interview. It's about time someone laid the cards on the table and told the truth about the WWF garbage ..... how can a man let the show go on when you had a death [Owen Hart] in the middle of the ring - and he knew Owen Hart was dead -  he knew it but he wasn't going to stop the show. And he let George Zahorian take the fall for the rampant steroid abuse in the WWF? What do you think about that?

Z - I don't think much about it - I come from a medical background - my father's a pharmacist  - my brother-in- law is a doctor.... I admire anyone that studies that hard.... I think Zahorian was a very nice guy  and he did the guys a favor and the guys were happy to see him.

Caller -Yeah, and he went to jail for Vinny........ How does he get away with things  - how come he never takes a fall?

Z - Would cash be the answer you're looking for? The almighty dollar? (laughter)

Caller - .... Can you imagine him sitting back in his office thinking "I got NBC, CBS, Fox, UPN - they all want me my great product ...my great porno fest". He's a sickening individual Tom, thank you.

Rich - WoW. Andrew's not a fan of Vince McMahon  ...

Z - I kinda got that!  I kinda read through the lines -  I just picked that up by osmosis! - hang on I've got to get it out of my cauliflower ear (laughter).

Andrew -We're running out of time here - you gotta tell the story about the Dynamite Kid. I know you're a big fan of Dynamite Kid - there was a prank that he pulled on Mr. Fuji ........... but please keep it clean

Z - We're running around the WWF ... Mr. Fuji came up to me - " Hey boysan, you give me a shot?" I kinda looked at him. Working with Demolition, I knew him and I was nice to him.  I thought "What's the deal here, Harry? "Give me a shot - B 12."  - So he wanted some B12 - I guess it keeps you going ..... All of a sudden I see Dynamite and Davey Boy scurrying around the corner -  (impersonating Dynamite's voice) "Hey Fuj,  we'll give you a ####ing shot." Fuji said "No no, you stay away, you go away, no no no " - And I thought what's going on here? ....So I go over to Davey Boy and Dynamite, and I said "Hey what's going on"  - "Oh hello Tom, the last time Fuj needed a shot we gave him a shot, we filled it full with testosterone, about 600 milligrams ...So Fuj got mad at us but ....." and that's as clean as I can keep it." 

[Off air - In fact, the testosterone made Fuji hard for a week or more].

Hosts - (laughter)

Z - Dynamite Kid ....he made it interesting, he was a character  - but wrestling doesn't take care of their own kind.... They should have Dynamite back and hook him up with Benoit - I'm sure he can still bump in a wheel chair - Vince should do something and learn that life comes full circle,  ...and  you have to give back. It's not going to help anything that was done in the past.. But my gosh, Dynamite kept me going when I was out in Portland. I'd come home and I'd have the tape, watching those guys. That's where I knew I wanted to be ... so that gave me motivation.  And I think Benoit and I think Chris Jericho ....in fact, a lot of people ...emulate and become motivated by people that you see on TV or wrestlers that you're a fan of, like Dynamite Kid.
 
 

Andrew - Well there are a lot of big fans of you, and all the ladies loved you out there, with your great looks and great wrestling ability, and we all miss you in the business - did you ever think of coming back?

Z - Do I ever what?  Oh No!!!  Yeah ..... send me a lucrative contract! -  I should get a million dollars a year just for knowledge alone. If you want me to build up I'm 210 - I can get ready in 2 months - but they DON"T want to hear what I have to say .... because I know what they did to me ...and I know what they did to Pillman. Pillman never wanted to go anywhere but WCW but they buried him - they burned on him. Kevin Sullivan. Where's he working now. How come Vince hasn't rung his phone off the wall. Come on!!

Andrew - We're very happy to have you on the show - thank you VERY much for joining us...... if you want to hear more about the career of Tom Zenk , check out www.tomzenk.com .... a lot of great pictures including a young DDP. We're in Page's book, so we're big fans of Page.....

Z -Oh really,  I read his book. I thought I was reading the Rocky story!!!!

(laughter)

Rich - Well it IS the Rocky story....

Z - But one thing he neglected to say is that both he and Bischoff bought their houses next door to each other from Dusty Rhodes' wife who was the realtor. And how everyone else passed on DDP-  no one else ever picked up all his talent or recognized how good he was. Japan .. everyone missed .. Vince missed. No-one picked up on him except for his next door neighbor Eric. Now that should clue you into how he got his break. And now what are they doing to him now? How come Bischoff hasn't shown any loyalty to DDP?

I mean DDP stuck with him through thick and thin, right? I mean now they're making his wife a ho on TV or a tramp. Where's the loyalty there? What's going on with that? He walked out through the crowd someone said?

Rich - He's taking some time off. And Kimberly has left WCW as of this week ....

Z - Well how is that? Bischoff's his buddy? Where's the loyalty there? Certainly DDP is NOT an athlete. He's like the Forrest Gump of wrestling, with his two knee braces and stuff. But my gosh, shouldn't Eric show him some loyalty.  He's been loyal to Eric. He helped a lot of guys get started . I mean he's got a lot of guys a break. He was like a talent scout from what I understand ....

Rich -He still is.......

Z - Exactly!! And what's Eric doing to him now. He's making a monkey out of him - there's no loyalty.

Hosts - Well we've gotta finish now. Thanks everyone

Promo for 'Positively Kanyon'.....

Rich - "We didn't have to beep that one (ha ha) - the comments made by Tom Zenk are his alone and are not those of the Pain Clinic or Hot Talk 1280....."

Andrew - "Yeah, but I mean....  He was honest  with us - we've got to hold him to that - he was completely honest ..." 

Rich -"Well, just don't kill me Page"  (Laughter)