The Pain Clinic Interview
Tom Zenk
10/6/01The transcript Bob Ryder and Dave Scherer refused to print!!
Source - The Painclinic
Transcribed by: Coopergrrl
audio
In the Studio: Rich, Andrew, Sybil, and Doctor LoveANDREW: He is a former star in the WWF and a former star in WCW. He is a member of the wrestling fraternity and he’s got a lot to say about the state of wrestling today; one of our good friends, Tom Zenk. (Cheers from the peanut gallery.)
Tom Zenk: Alright! Hey, how are you guys doing today?
ANDREW: Great Tom! How are you doing today?
Tom Zenk: It’s an awful, painful day and month for the WWF.
ANDREW: How’s Minnesota?
Tom Zenk: Minnesota’s getting cold; it froze last night. We had our first frost, and other than that it’s real good.
ANDREW: That’s great. I’ll tell you what, one of the things we’re talking about today, Tom, is the state of wrestling. What is going on wit the WWF? What do they have to do to get the ratings back up? Last night when we talked, you mentioned a lot of things about the WWF stock and their financial situation. Tell us how bad it really is right now.
Tom Zenk: Ok. Everything’s down—you know, the house shows, the profits are down. The WWF report to the SEC for the first quarter of 2002 has the performers fees down $1.2 million for the first quarter. That would be $5 million for a year. Their net revenues are down 11%; that’s $11.2 million. And in the first fiscal quarter of 2002 it was $90.7 million, compared to $101.9 (million) in the first fiscal quarter of 2001.
ANDREW: Big bucks!
Tom Zenk: $8.4 million losses in branded merchandise, and they’re still paying off the XFL failure!
RICH: Hey Tom, we all have our theories on why the WWF is tanking now. What do you think the reason is?
Tom Zenk: Well, I think part of it is Stephanie and Shane. She should have had rhinoplasty instead of augmentation of her boobs! (general laughter in the house) And poor Shane, he’s putting the smack down on main event guys! C’mon! The poor kid, he’s a mark for himself! Why don’t you take your shirt off Shane? (More giggles in the house) I mean really! They’ve got bad genetics! They’re not like me, or you guys! I mean, he should get on the road and wrestle five days a week, and then do all his cutesy little moves where he doesn’t have time to recuperate, and then see if he can talk that trash, okay? Walk the walk, talk the talk! Get them off of TV, okay? And bring back some T and A!
They’ve got a monopoly. Every piece of talent they could possibly want And still they can’t manage their core business ...
DOC: I agree with the T and A; you’ve got to bring that back! But don’t you think that part of the reason for all this is that the economy itself is down right now?
Tom Zenk: Don’t use that excuse! No no no! Good times or bad times, people want to be entertained; you know that! They maybe have less dollars for entertainment, so they pick and choose whether it’s wrestling or a movie, but wrestling has always been a staple. Don’t use that excuse! No no no! They’ve got a monopoly. Every piece of talent they could possibly want is at their beck and call. If they can’t do it now, which is Vince’s big dream come true… I mean, come on Vince! Bring it on! Let’s see what you’ve got! You fumbled the ball with the XFL! Let’s see! This is your core business and you can’t get it going! What’s going on?
SYBIL: Well that’s a good question. Actually Tom, I had a school girl crush on you way back when.
Tom Zenk: Oh man, I’m going to hardly be able to stand myself! Thank you, that’s so nice to hear!
SYBIL: You’re welcome. Actually, I just wanted to go back to the beginning of your career. Now, you went to high school with Kurt Henning, Nikita Koloff, Rick Rude…
Tom Zenk: Johnny Nord.
SYBIL: And you actually got your start in body building.
Tom Zenk: Yes I did.
SYBIL: And the Animal…you met him one night and how did that go? What did he say to you? What sparked you to get into wrestling?
Tom Zenk: Well, I was at a contest. I’d won Mr. Twin Cities, Mr. Minnesota, and Animal was judging some regional contest; and he was back in town after he’d gotten his start with Ole Anderson down in Georgia Championship Wrestling. He goes: “Hey Zenk! We could use a guy like you! You’d be a good babyface, you know!” He knew I was a good athlete and stuff, and that kind of sparked it. He was doing good, Rick Rude was doing good, Barry Darsow were all doing good…I think he was down as one of the Russians in World Class Wrestling, or no, for Louisiana for Bill Watts. I saw these guys doing good, driving nice cars, and I thought ‘Hey, let’s give it a shot!’ and from then on, it was history. I got trained by Eddie Sharkey, and then Vern Gagne, I knocked on his door one time. The squeaky wheel gets the oil; they trained me after about two weeks of harassing them!
"I always felt that I’ve been a fair and just man, and if not, I’d like to hear it face-to-face. And until we sit down face-to-face, I consider this matter unresolved. Amicably yours, Vincent Kennedy McMahon."
DOC: Tom, why do you hate Vince McMahon so much?
Tom Zenk: I don’t hate Vince McMahon. He said I was a quitter when I left there. I guess he was a quitter on the XFL! He talks out of both sides of his mouth, and he buries people. He came after me and sued me! I left because he paid me less money than Rick Martel. He cut his own deal. I called him on it, and they sued me! I didn’t want anything to do with him. It’s not a hate; it’s a point where he wrote me a letter saying ‘ I always felt that I’ve been a fair and just man, and if not, I’d like to hear it face-to-face. And until we sit down face-to-face, I consider this matter unresolved. Amicably yours, Vincent Kennedy McMahon.’ Mr. Big Shot, talking that way to me! I saw what he did—Say no to drugs, kids stay in school—we had to do all these public service announcements when Dr. Zaharian was giving drugs to all these guys! They were making money off of kids! That’s where I had a problem with it! And I’m supposed to go on TV and say ‘Don’t use drugs and stay in school’? That’s one thing I don’t want to be accused of—being a hypocrite! And then in court, Laura Brevetti said I took drugs from a garbage can! That’s what kind of guy I was? I don’t think so!
DOC: But Tom, you were involved in the body building business. Back then, in that era, wasn’t that a big part of it? Guys were doing what they had to do to have the look?
Tom Zenk: Yes, for some guys. But for me, I had gone to a doctor and it was all done legally! It wasn’t like Stephanie said that her dad was this and that…Her daddy was getting felonious packages! He was a steroid user! He needed steroids to be an announcer; he was breaking the law! This was all done legally when I was body building. I was under a doctor’s supervision, okay? And back when I quit there, I mean…Pat Patterson, Rick Martel, Terry Garvin, they were the reasons I quit too. But the money was bad, and all the other guys are going to see just how bad the money is. We’re not going to see a millionaire’s club—ever—in the WWF. You never hear them bragging about their upside of the contracts. Downside! And now, on Meltzer’s sheet, he said last week that middle guy’s payoffs are down $200 - $750 a night!
RICH: So that’s why you don’t see these guys under their Time Warner contracts dumping out of it! They don’t want to work every night!
Tom Zenk: Who would! And Goldberg’s got the last laugh! This guy had more talent than anyone…you know, you feed a fire like they did Hogan. They feed a fire like him…you do that. They cut Goldberg down…how they manipulate down in the south. It all came back to bite them. And he had the biggest contract ever. And he’s sitting out…I’m sure he’s giving the finger to everyone!
RICH: He’s probably not going to wrestle again, either!
Tom Zenk: If I was him I never would either, because he got swerved by Kevin Sullivan and all those great booking minds who certainly don’t have a job in the WWF! They’re down wrestling at Old McDonald’s Farm with Dusty Rhodes! In front of 200 people, and they’re getting juice! Imagine that! What a lesson in hubris for Dusty, pushing a boulder up the hill, and it keeps rolling down on Fatty! I love it! And his son’s down there too!
**NEXT TOM DOES A HILARIOUS DUSTY IMPRESSION** (The whole Pain Clinic is rolling on the floor laughing their @$$es off) (Sorry folks, ya gotta hear it to appreciate it. Check it out on the website here
"What a lesson in hubris for Dusty, pushing a boulder up the hill, and it keeps rolling down on Fatty!"
ANDREW: Hey Tom, you want to take a phone call?
Tom Zenk: Yes.
RICH: Okay, we’ve got Andrew on the line.
ANDREWTHECALLER: Hey Tom! You’re my hero! I’ve been the lone voice on this show for three years against Vincent K. McMahon and I want to thank you for backing me up! Ask Vinnie sometime where Doctor George Zahorian is.
Tom Zenk: I don’t know, but I know he did three years.
What’s with Kurt Angle's zit face and the big arms…you think he’s on (steroids)? The great American Kurt Angle? That phony and fraud!
ANDREWTHECALLER: That’s right; he took the fall for Vincent K. McMahon.
Tom Zenk: Yes, he sold everyone out. That’s what Vince does, he sold him out.
ANDREWTHECALLER: Remember the time he got on the stand Tom, and said ‘Oh yeah, wrestling is fake’? Remember he got on the stand and he had to admit that so he could get off on the steroids? But that’s not why I called…The other day I saw Kurt Angle on an interview. What’s with the zit face and the big arms…you think he’s on (steroids)? The great American Kurt Angle? That phony and fraud!
Tom Zenk: That’s another thing. Now Linda McMahon…they’re pushing drug addicts as role models for school kids. The campaign ‘Get Real.’ I wonder who should get real?
ANDREWTHECALLER: How long is it going to be for McMahon to talk about the Twin Towers, and do what he did in 1990 with the Gulf War angle?
ANDREW: Well Andrew, let me tell you, there’s been talk about it… I think it was the Honky Tonk Man who said they should bring in a Palestinian terrorist as a WWF character to boost the ratings!
ANDREWTHECALLER: There’s nothing that guy won’t exploit! He pushed the homosexual business with Pat Patterson under the rug. How does he get away with it?
Tom Zenk: He’s got a lot of cash!
ANDREWTHECALLER: He floated a bogus stock and everybody with his right mind is under water with it except the McMahon family, who bought the stock for nothing.
Tom Zenk: You ever see his graph on that stock? It’s a really nice graph.
ANDREWTHECALLER: It’s a beautiful graph; it went up to 22 and collapsed at 10. He can bogus anything up. He gets away with murder, but you know what? There’s a very hot spot where he’s going to end up; him and that phony fraud family and all his henchmen there! Why doesn’t anybody call him out? Dave Meltzer is the only one with any guts, because Vinnie hates him so much, to write things in print about all his nonsense, all his lies, but everybody believes him. (McMahon) You get him on shows like Dateline…did you see the Bob Costas interview?
Tom Zenk: Yeah, Bob Costas leering at him, jumping out at him. Big Bobby Costas! What is he, a buck fifty? He had the old man searing!
ANDREWTHELONGWINDEDCALLER: Costas destroyed him! People were siding with McMahon. I couldn’t believe it! He had him cornered. McMahon wanted to take him down right there. You know, Costas asked him every right question, and the next day, the guys on WFAN were all siding with Vinnie! I don’t get it Tom!
RICH: Hey Andrew, thanks for calling. Let’s let Tom answer some questions.
Tom Zenk: There’s only one place to go, so you know it’s like a politician. Some of my friends are for it, some of my friends are against it, and I’m always for my friends. Vince has a lot of money, but I have a keen memory of him when I had to testify in court. I liked him in that ‘money collar’ as we say—that neck collar he was in. That was my favorite get-up. The Bob Costas deal, that was another one of my favorites. He’s a real piece of work.
The funniest thing is, now he’s buying back his own stock...
RICH: Hey Tom, do you have any friends that are still in the WWF?
Tom Zenk:In wrestling there’s really not friends. There are acquaintances because of the business and that. No, and I don’t have any enemies. I mean, what I went through, it’s my own belief , I form my own opinions, but I think I’ve been pretty accurate on it. I don’t really have much of an ego about it as far as winning and losing, because I went through Verne Gagne’s camp and I had to wrestle Brad Rheingans and they taught me discipline and respect for the business. But what they’ve done and that’s what Vince has done to the business; it’s entertainment and he’s really exposed it. The funniest thing is, now he’s buying back his own stock, and he’s got friends like at General Electric, you know they’re buying back their own stock. A guy named Kenneth Langorne, director of General Electric, he bought another $2 million worth back on August 30th. Vince bought back his own stock so it doesn’t run going down because people are going to dump it. They’re going to protect their own investment; that’s what people should know.
DOC: Tommy, you and Andrew have a problem. If it wasn’t for Vince McMahon, quite honestly, we wouldn’t be watching any wrestling now. Because those other guys ruined their business that they had—
Tom Zenk: What other guys?
DOC: Bischoff and company, and Ted Turner just putting in money. We wouldn’t have wrestling right now! Yeah, Vince McMahon and the steroid thing, he mentioned something about Pat Patterson and all that…but that happens in every big corporation. In the NFL back in that era, all the NFL players were doing the illegal stuff; they just didn’t get caught. So you can’t just blame Vince McMahon. Let’s say what he’s done for the business. He’s kept this business around for a long, long time. I wouldn’t know who Tom Zenk is right now, if it wasn’t for Vince McMahon! So let’s look at it that way, too.
Tom Zenk: (pauses) Okay. (huge outburst of laughter)
RICH: Let’s take another call. We’ve got Joe here.
I remember Nash saying that he had money market accounts, and he was investing and he didn’t ever have to work after his contract again! Well, what happened to it?
JOE: I want to know what you think of the current stories, the current angles going on in the WWF and if they need to be changed up and what’s your view on them?
Tom Zenk: Well, if you read the Ross report, you know he defends the writers—he says that fans over-simplify things, and he speaks in positive terms of the writers. But I think Stephanie should be on a little bit more. Give her a little more airtime! (laughter) And I think Shane should be plugged in there more too! I think the writers all have a lot of angles, but I think they all have to yield to Daddy’s little girl, the Princess. She should just go on a vacation and stay out of it. She’s beating top talent, she’s taking the shine off of top talent! They have no business belonging in the ring! But see, I call it ‘the narcotic effect of TV.’ They get the hook in them. That’s why Flair wants to come back for a retirement deal, Hogan wants to come back. Hall and Nash—what did they do, piss away all their money? I remember Nash saying that he had money market accounts, and he was investing and he didn’t ever have to work after his contract again! Well, what happened to it? The point being is - Sure, it’s easy; get the kids out of there. They don’t have much talent, I don’t think.
RICH: Tom, I’ve got to tell you: One of my perspectives on the whole invasion was that I think everything was going great until they turned it into the McMahon family feud again, which it has been for probably the last 2 or 3 years. I mean, if they had never brought Stephanie in, I think that angle would have survived a little bit longer, and would have done a little bit better than they expected.
Tom Zenk: Of course! But they blew that angle and that’s his core business! How can you blow it and miss the boat on that? The invasion angle, the Alliance…I mean, he wants to humiliate WCW instead of building them up? Did he forget he owns it? I mean…this year with all his debacles he’s lost over $500 million! You’re never going to see Vince McMahon talked about in Harvard Business School and what a great businessman he is! Nothing! He’s lost over $500 million; he’s like a gelding now! It’s terrible!
Now there going to put scales up and weigh guys? That tells me that they are going to start cutting people. When they send people to OVW, or whatever, that’s the kiss of death.
DOC: Tom, give me a name of a couple guys that you feel didn’t get the proper push because of Stephanie and Shane getting that push. Who do you think is sitting out in the wings and could be a mainstream star now?
Tom Zenk: Oh there’s a lot of people they could have given a chance! I mean, what you have to do in wrestling—they talk down to people, they brow beat them and they say ‘ He just doesn’t have it.’ They do it behind closed doors; that’s what they do. You can see how HHH is manipulating to go against Rob Van Dam, right? Now he’s going to come back and who is he going to take the shine off of? The top guy, the new fresh guy. He’s very clever. They should push anyone—anyone! Jericho, any of these guys that have talent. But see they pushed the two Chrises before, and it didn’t work. But it was in May, March, Wrestlemania, April May; they didn’t push them at a good time. You know, they can’t wait for the good talent to get back. Now there going to put scales and weigh guys?
That tells me that they are going to start cutting people. When they send people to OVW, or whatever, that’s the kiss of death. They’ve got to wean the talent out. They’ve got too many guys, then maybe the payoff will be able to start to come up. That’s the kiss of death. They don’t want to have massive layoff because the people will start dumping stock. They said they were going to grow their business through revenue streams and what’s the show they had on MTV, didn’t that get a 2.5 rating?ANDREW: Tough Enough, yes.
Tom Zenk:The 2.5 rating is what WCW used to consistently get. Get it! They could have that on a separate WCW wrestling show plus they could have kept their 5.0 rating and grown their business that way.
ANDREW: If they had just left everything as it was, and just put WCW on the air and didn’t change a thing, they would be better off.
RICH: They never would have gotten WCW for 5 million dollars they got it for and keep it on TV and keep it in the same timeslot.
ANDREW: The timeslot was the key that TNT/TBS dropped wrestling.
DOC: So what’s the solution here guys?
Tom Zenk: Vince has hooked up with Viacom and all those. They would have gotten it on something. NBC, TNT They all know because the one guy that made the deal, to get it, he used to work for TNT and he worked for Turner. Who was the guy? The big shot that intervened and cut the deal finally? I forget his name off hand but he works there. Stuart [Snyder]..
DOC: Stuart Little? Tommy, listen baby, when your were in the game heavy, wasn’t it the same thing, though? I remember when I was a kid Chief Jay Strongbow, I look at this guy and I say this guy has the body and face like my grandfather, I can’t believe their pushing this guy. He had 2 moves. Isn’t it the same as it’s been forever and ever, certain guys because who you know or what you do that get you the push and certain guys don’t. It’s the same thing so you can’t blame the guy for pushing his own kids. He pushed his dad’s buddies back then.
You know how much resentment there’s got to be. If we resent Shane and Stephanie, what do you think the talent, the guys taking bumps nightly, not making big money really think about Shane and Stephanie?
Tom Zenk: Vince can run it anyway he wants. And he’s running it into the ground which I kind of enjoy. I mean he can push his kid, it’s his company. The point I’m trying to make or the thing I hated about WCW was Dusty, Bill Watts, Ric Flair ran it like it was their own personal property and it wasn’t. It was a corporation. It was not their own personal property. They all pushed their sons now McMahon is running this business the same WCW and they don’t learn by that. You know how much resentment there’s got to be. If we resent Shane and Stephanie, what do you think the talent, the guys taking bumps nightly, not making big money like Shane and Stephanie? What do you think they really think?
ANDREW: Kurt Angle was on Opie and Anthony this week and he said the toughest guy in the WWF locker room was Shane McMahon.
RICH: Of course he said that.
Tom Zenk: Of course he did, he knows where his bread is buttered. Just like Foley said in his book, what a shill “Oh Vince doesn’t makes anyone take steroids” Oh really, he’s a big
on bodies, he always has been. Steroid bodies seem to draw money.DOC: Tom what are you doing now buddy?
Tom Zenk: What am I doing? I manage a multi-national company production arm so , it’s kind of fun, I work out and I play an awful lot of golf.
DOC: No wrestling at all?
Tom Zenk: I’m waiting for Vince to start the XPGA. If I can’t beat you on the course I’ll beat you up after. Okay, so I win both ways. Listen, and I know Dick Ebersol, he’s in on it too. He can’t wait.
RICH: Full Contact Golf.
DOC: When you were tagteam partners with Rick Martel, how difficult was it for the camera guys to hide that bald spot on the back of his head?
Tom Zenk: I think he sprayed shoe polish, or black paint, the stuff that we used to hang from bridges and put graffiti on, something like that. Like Jack Lanza used to do and Chief Jay Strongbow that had that stuff..
RICH: GLH, paint your bald spot
Tom Zenk: That Popeil stuff, Instinty hair same thing. I got it in my eyes a few times. I missed a few high spots.
ANDREW: Tom we have to wrap it up. It’s been great. We’d love to have you on sometime again and talk somemore. We could talk to you for hours. You got all the stories. You were there and you know what goes on. That’s whats important. The truths gotta come out.
Tom Zenk: Well I know. They try to put a spin on it. It’s really too bad because it’s not a tough business. They make the same mistakes over and over. They never learn by it.
RICH: Okay!
Tom Zenk: You guys have a good day and thanks for letting me on.
EVERYONE: Thanks Tom! Talk to you again.