'A guilty pleasure...'edited feedback on Tom Zenk from wrestlingclassics.com
"As an interview now he's a Hall of Famer. If you can put personal feelings aside, he's got some legit criticism and ideas on how to turn WCW around."
"Zenk was a "guilty pleasure" of mine in wrestling. I thought he had loads of talent and the ability to be both heel and face. He probably would have done much better in the old territory days. I remember the excellent match he had against Brian Pillman on [the Wrestlewar'92] PPV. Some may say sour grapes but we should appreciate a pro wrestler being so candid and open in his interviews.."
"I don't think he comes across as bitter but he is brutally honest. Now if he wanted to return, he's got a ready made gimmick..""Bob Ryder loves to lie, and hold things back. Tom Zenk comes across as an honest, down to earth person.I may not agree with what Tom Zenk says, but at least his views aren't influenced by the company signing his paychecks. Maybe Mr. Ryder doesn't like Tom Zenk's appearences, because it exposes shows such as WCW Live for what they are. A shill show hosted by shills.""What does it say about Zenk that he didn't main event in WCW? ...What does it say about Steve Austin, Mick Foley, and The Undertaker? Tom Zenk, in his little internet throwdowns, has proven that he was much more marketable than what that half-assed company got out of him. He's got quite the mouth on him.""I think WCW made a mistake with Zenk, like they made a mistake with a dozen or three other guys. WCW years ago wouldn't let Foley too close to a mic, so I'm sure Zenk never got a chance to do micwork either. I want to see Zenk smack Bob Ryder and Wade (neighbors with XPAC!!!) Keller around"
"Tom Zenk has the right to express his opinions, and I find everything he says pretty damn interesting."
'Tom Zenk was a very good, almost excellent wrestler ...You might disagree with the way he delivers the message but all the interviews I've heard-he seems to be right on'''Could Zenk get a booking job or perhaps any behind the scenes job with WCW/WWF with his wrestling perspective?'
'Tell me a presidential debate between Ole and Zenk wouldn't be fun.'
Author Topic: Message From A Shill
MaskedSuperstar99
Member posted 12-27-2000 06:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------In my daily surfing of wrestling-realted websites, I only check 1Wrestling.Con to see if any of the columnists I like have written something new. Today, it seems that Bob the Shill is up in arms over Tom Zenk's latest internet radio show appearence. I wasn't a fan of the guy in the ring but I do recommend him as a radio guest. Just a few of Bob's special criticisms (paraphrased):
"If he was so good, how come he never had a main event run?"
I seem to remember Ole jobbing him out to get him to quit so he they wouldn't have to pay him. No main event run possible in that situation.
"If he such a genius, how come he's not running one of the major organiztions?"
I would imagine a top job at the WWF doesn't come open too often. WCW-why would anyone want a job there? ECW-they have their own problems, I don't think they're looking to fill any management positions regardless of the person available. Most of all, he's got a good job outside of wrestling.
"It would easier to respect what he says if he had any kind of a track record to prove that he's qualified to say the things he says."
Mark. It would be easier to respect what you wrote if you weren't paid to shill for the company the guy legitimally criticizes. Isn't this is the same argument that professional athletes use to deflect criticism? The one that goes if you've never played the game professionally then you don't have the right to criticize. Doesn't work for them, doesn't work for you. I'm curious about the opinions of the others on the board.
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Eric Walls
Member posted 12-27-2000 06:15 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------I was kinda suprised at what Ryder said about Tom. Seems to me there's some hidden venom in Ryder directed at Zenk for some reason. Strange.
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Mark from WA
Member posted 12-27-2000 08:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Zenk did headline in Portland in the mid-80s but, of course, it wasn't a national promotion & he did form a team in the WWF with Martel before disappearing. He wasn't bad - not great, but not bad either. What was the reason he vanished from the WWF ?
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Bob Barnett
Member posted 12-27-2000 08:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------I was minding my own beeswax, about to hit the beach with the 75 degree weather. Ryder couldn't have been further from my thoughts. Then someone called and said he'd gone off on Zenk. I had to read what .con wrote.-
NOTES FROM BOB
by Bob RyderWHAT'S HE RUNNING FOR?
"Tom Zenk made another one of his famous appearances on an internet audio show this past weekend, this time appearing on the LAW. If you've heard one of these diatribes, you've heard them all."
Sort of like-oh never mind.
"Zenk has spent the last several months appearing on as many of these shows as possible, and has taken shots at darn near everybody in the wrestling business. He's blasted WCW and the WWF...McMahon and Bischoff...and just about everybody elsewho has ever been involved in the industry.You have to wonder what made this guy so bitter?"
A rhetorical statement by the .con!
"You also have to wonder...why does anyone care that he's bitter?"
Maybe because he pulls no punches with his commentary, and names names.
"If he was such a great wrestler, why didn't he ever have a run as a main event star? Zenk will say it was because of jealousy and because the established stars held him back. That's a convenient excuse after the fact...but the truth of the matter is that while he was an active wrestler he was only successful when he latched on to more talented performers who carried him along for the ride."
Poor [Ryder] .con. He still doesn't understand the concept of "Bookers."
"If he's such a genius about the wrestling business, and if he has all the answers to what is wrong with it...why isn't he running one of the major organizations?"
Moron. There's only one major organization, and it's run by it's 2nd generation owner.
"It's always easy to mouth off on an internet show about what is wrong with the world".
Bob-are your feet that small that you can get them into your mouth on such a regular basis?
"It would easier to respect what he says if he had any kind of a track record to prove that he's qualified to say the things he says."
He wrestled-you didn't. What makes you qualified?
"He doesn't....and he isn't."
You don't, and you're not. He's far more qualified than you.
"It's a sad commentary that these internet appearances have gotten Zenk more "over" than anything he ever did in the ring. Maybe that says all that needs to be said about Zenk's contributions to the wrestling business."
Please Bob-I BEG YOU-what are your contributions to the wrestling business?
(Checked with Libelchecker2000 c2000)
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TABE
Member posted 12-28-2000 02:49 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Bob, I respect your opinion greatly, but I gotta think you're a little off-base here. While I don't necessarily agree with Ryder's nasty assessment of Tom Zenk, I do agree with him that Zenk certainly comes across as bitter. Anyone who has seen Zenk perform knows that he was a good-looking, semi-talented guy with a nice build. They also know that he had ZERO charisma. And because he had zero charisma, he never got a main event push anywhere outside of Portland. I can buy the "he was held back"
theory if it applies in one area or something, but Zenk wrestled in all three of the big feds (the AWA, NWA, and WWF) and didn't go main event in any of them. What does that say?TABE
www.tabe.nu
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MaskedSuperstar99
Member posted 12-28-2000 03:49 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------I didn't see him in the AWA/WWF. Tabe, I don't even disagree with your assessment of his ability but I seem to remember reading that Ole was specifically jobbing him to everyone in an effort to make him quit. I think he was a good-looking super babyface when that style was really moving out of favor with the public. I don't think he comes across as bitter but he is brutally honest. Now if he wanted to return, he's got a ready made gimmick, Shane Douglas has used it for years.
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Richard SuIlivan
Member posted 12-28-2000 06:02 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------What does it say about Zenk that he didn't main event in WCW?
Maybe lots... or maybe nothing. What does it say about Steve Austin, Mick Foley, and The Undertaker?
Tom Zenk, in his little internet throwdowns, has proven that he was much more marketable than what that half-assed company got out of him. He's got quite the mouth on him.
Think about it Ryder ... you genius. He's a big guy. Decent worker. Great talker. Good looking. And didn't have a problem doing a job. They squandered another golden goose. Is he bitter? Probably. Should he be?
Maybe. Zenk's appearances are still more entertaining than that little nickle-and-dime dog-and-pony show WCW.com cranks out where a whole slew of bitter suck asses spout their ill-informed view of the business they're barely clinging to.
How much further down the foodchain do you think Bob and Jeremy are than Madden?
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clawmaster64
Member posted 12-28-2000 10:17 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------The first time I saw Zenk wrestle was in 1984 (could have been 85 too)for the AWA. Zenk was doing the Mr Minnesota bodybuilding gimmick and was partnered with Curt Hennig. Zenk was eventually "injured" and left the territory. Tom's place was taken by Scott Hall. The next time I saw Zenk he was in the WWF teaming with Rick Martel as the Can Am Connection. Zenk has his version on why his WWF stay was so short. Martel offers a different version of that story.
Zenk does show great wit on recent online interviews. However I can't recall Zenk ever cutting an entertaining promo. I'm not sure if he wasn't allowed to be funny on interviews or if he was unable to show his sense of humor while doing his interviews ala Brad Armstrong. Some guys have difficulty projecting themselves as television personalities. Like I said before I'm not sure whether Zenk wasn't allowed to project himself by the bookers or whether Zenk was incapable of pulling it off.
As Richard said, Zenk was an above average worker. I remember a few matches he had with Arn Anderson that impressed me a lot. However when I watched Zenk, I never got the feeling he had IT. He just seemed like another run of the mill pretty boy. He paled in comparison to partner Brian Pillman. Even though Brian was used wrong for years by WCW, you could still see the man had personality. I never got that feeling when I watched Zenk.
Jim
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Bob Barnett
Member posted 12-28-2000 11:50 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------"Bob, I respect your opinion greatly, but I gotta think you're a little off-base here. While I don't necessarily agree with Ryder's nasty assessment of Tom Zenk, I do agree with him that Zenk certainly comes
across as bitter."I never said Zenk doesn't come across as bitter. Everybody that is working, or has ever worked for WCW, is bitter. Except Ryder-of course.
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sportatorium roach
Member posted 12-28-2000 11:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------I think WCW made a mistake with Zenk, like they made a mistake with a dozen or three other guys. WCW years ago wouldnt let Foley too close to a mic, so Im sure Zenk never got a chance to do micwork either. I want to see Zenk smack Bob Ryder and Wade (neighbors with XPAC!!!) Keller around.
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DPordy
Member posted 12-29-2000 01:30 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------"It would easier to respect what he says if he had any kind of a track record to prove that he's qualified to saythe things he says. He doesn't....and he isn't."
That is what bothers me most about what Ryder says.
On one hand you have Tom Zenk who was a decent wrestler that 'didn't have any charisma', and 'wasn't deserving' of a major push. I also think that when you look at the list of guys that weren't given the opportunity in WCW that made it in the WWF, I think there is some merit to Zenk's opinion.
Anyways the statement above is what bothers me the most. If anybody shouldn't be allowed to open their big fat mouth it's Ryder. Bob Ryder never wrestled for WCW, Tom Zenk did. Bob Ryder is collecting paychecks from WCW, Tom Zenk isn't. Bob Ryder loves to lie, and hold things back. Tom Zenk comes across as an honest, down to earth person.
I may not agree with what Tom Zenk says, but at least his views aren't influenced by the company signing his paychecks.
Maybe Mr. Ryder doesn't like Tom Zenk's appearences, because it exposes shows such as WCW Live for what they are. A shill show hosted by shills.
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MaskedSuperstar99
Member posted 12-29-2000 04:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------... Opinions on Meltzer vary like gas mileage but I tend to believe Zenk when he said it and other things about WCW behind the scenes at the time. Does he have an axe to grind? Does he come across a slightly bitter? Yes, he does, but he never really had a wide outlet before to vent some of that frustration. Did he have "It", maybe no, but isn't it the job of the booker to maximize the talent he has available? I don't think they did in his case and the others. Maybe they could have tried harder to find a way to get him over more. I remember alot of repackagind going on at the time. Really the debate over whether Zenk was misused or not was kinda secondary to the fact that the guy
criticizing him is a paid employee of the company that he was criticizing. Ryder's opinion wasn't on WCW's website but on a site that is supposed to be independant. To me that taints his opinions just like it would if it came out that Meltzer was in the employ of the WWF.IP: Logged
DPordy
Member posted 12-29-2000 04:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Zenk has the right to express his opinions, and I find everything he says pretty damn interesting.
MaskedSuperstar99
Member posted 11-26-2000 02:18 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Any thoughts on the guy? Man I hated the guy as your typical babyface but who knew he had that much personality. You might disagree with the way he delivers the message but all the interviews I've heard-he seems to be right on.
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HW
Member posted 11-29-2000 12:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Zenk was a "guilty pleasure" of mine in wrestling. I thought he had loads of talent and the ability to both heel and face. He probably would have done much better in the old territory days. I remember the excellent match he had against Brian Pillman on a PPV. Some may say sour grapes but we should appreciate a pro wrestling being so candid and open in his interviews with wrestling "press".
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Big Daddy Meatybone
Member posted 11-29-2000 12:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Could Zenk get a booking job or perhaps any behind the scenes job with WCW/WWF with his wrestling perspective?
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Mark from WA
Member posted 11-30-2000 02:23 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------He got a big babyface push in Portland in the mid 80's - they had him undefeated for a while. I didn't see a lot of it when he was there but I think he feuded with The Grappler. I don't have that particular time period on video but saw a little of it. Portland was running as a territory then & Tom was doing a good job & was popular.
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Tom Blaze
Member posted 12-03-2000 08:47 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------I think Tom Zenk would have made a perfect heel.... For some reason, either his or the promoters, he kept the same persona his entire career. I think this hurt his chances of getting a major push. He certainly was a top notch wrestler, with above average ability.
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.....Tom Zenk was quoted on Between the Ropes radio as criticizing Sting by saying “He can stay on top for fifteen years without having drawn a dime” and when told about Sting’s recent injury, Zenk responded “He has great timing.”
pepsidude
Member posted 11-26-2000 11:55 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------imho, Luger has never succeeded because he doesn't really like wrestling... I actually thought he was a pretty reasonable worker from about 89-91, maybe 92, and he is a decent athlete, he just doesn't care.
I listened to a Tom Zenk interview the other day where he was joking about Luger saying "bowf!" when he hit you
Crimson Mask I
Moderator posted 11-26-2000 12:48 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------See, there's Zenk again, with his resentments clouding his perception...
...eveybody knows Luger says 'DOWF!', not 'bowf'... and he says it when YOU hit HIM, too...
mr. man
Member posted 11-26-2000 04:28 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------I thought it was just plain Owf!
Medical Lamp
Member posted 11-27-2000 11:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------It doesn't hurt that Flexy is buds with Sting, Nash, Page, Flair et. al, the old boy network that still runs WCW.
MaskedSuperstar99
Member posted 01-12-2001 12:55 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Let me just state this for the record that I wasnt a Zenk fan in the ring but he did get screwed pretty good. As an interview now he's a hall of famer, if you can put personal feelings aside he's got some legit criticism and ideas on how to turn WCW around.
Jim - where did Pillman become the star? Right before he left WCW, his short stay in ECW and then the WWF. Just my opinion.
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Todd
Member posted 01-12-2001 03:20 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------The thing about Zenk is that he just "shoots" and he has a target audience, the internet smarts, that eat up all his stuff.
I mean, people are going ga-ga because it's "Tom Zenk", a recognizable name but personally, I find most of the things he points out (such as WCW's ills) to be nothing groudbreaking, just something we all could've figured out or stuff we've read time and time before on places such as this....
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MaskedSuperstar99
Member posted 01-12-2001 04:02 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------1. Jim-my point was he [Pillman] had to leave WCW to break out and be a bigger star. Lots of parallels to the situation today. "Those who don't understand history are doomed to repeat it"
2. Complaining about the way you were treated isn't whining. He [Zenk] stated himself he was happy to take the money and had no problem doing jobs for anyone.
3. To turn WCW around would seem kinda simple to us but it sure has eluded the people at Turner for many years and geez they sold the company to someone who was part of running into the ground in the first place.
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Shattered
Member posted 01-13-2001 08:10 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------In the ring Tom Zenk was a very good, almost excellent wrestler. Don't know much about him outside the ring though.
k2doe
Member posted 09-21-2000 06:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------By the way, anybody hear Zenk shoot on Ole Anderson on Meltzer's show the other week? Tell me a presidential debate between those two wouldn't be fun.