ZENK vs RYDER / WCW
Bob Ryder argues his case (from a1wrestling.com) Tom Zenk's comments on the LAW (12/23) were reported widely in the wrestling media , leading to (a) a response from Bob Ryder, an employee of WCW and part owner of 1wrestling.con and (b) a reply by Tom Zenk. Listen to Pro Wrestling Radio upcoming 1/6/2001 for more commentary by Tom.
Below, the story so far -
6. So who is Bob Ryder?
5. Bob's credibility - testimonials from his colleagues
4. Some reviews of Bob's work
3. Tom Zenk replies to Ryder (12/28)
2. Bob Ryder's response on behalf of WCW (12/27)
1. Tom Zenk on the Law (12/23)
6. So who is Bob Ryder?
Bob Ryder launched 1Wrestling.com in August of 1997 after heading up the wrestling area on Prodigy for the previous two years. Ryder began watching Bill Watts' wrestling in the mid 1960's in the Louisianna area. But his involvement with WCW wrestling stems from 1996 and Eric Bischoff who was a regular on Prodigy chat.
In 1996 Bischoff asked Ryder to start providing updates to the nWo Hotline. Ryder's role with the company expanded when he began working on WCW Live in early 1999.
Ryder also purports to write an 'independent' wrestling newsheet at 1wrestling.com but his regular "Notes From Bob" column is still laughingly referred to as "Notes from Eric".
Smart fans who consider Ryder's sheet to be lacking journalistic integrity have migrated to the 'anti-Ryder site' a1wrestling.com
5. Bob Ryder's credibility - testimonials from his colleagues
"I have a lot to say about Mr. Bob Ryder ... but I think I'll take the high ground, and I'll be a better man than him, and I won't tell everybody how fat and bald and goofy looking he is. I wouldn't do that, because that's my opinion, just like Mr. Ryder's opinion about me that holds no weight....." Bill Goldberg's CNN interview
R: How is Ryder treated in WCW by the boys in the locker room?
B: I don't know about all the boys, but I do know Goldberg (in hating his guts) is not alone. Everybody knows he's a stooge and a kissass. I mean the show...WCW Live...is just an abomination. He talks like a psychopath in a monotone. He knows nothing ....He's a disgusting human being, he's just a piece of garbage........ I urge everyone who hates Ryder, which is basically anyone with an IQ over 30, to go to a1wrestling.com, which is the anti-Ryder site. Join the fun, that's where all the anti-Ryder fans have ended up when his forum just died and everyone realized what a liar he is." - Barnett (Vampiro's former 'manager')
4. Some reviews of Bob's work
"I called WCW's hotline and Ryder was on there talking, and put me to sleep. I woke up and my f****** phone bill was through the roof."
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"Back when Bob Ryder was the Internet wrestling king on Prodigy, Keller and Meltzer were only read by a few of the Internet reporters. Bischoff used Bob to WCW's advantage and still attempts it to this day. The problem now is that Ryder has lost all credibility having become a laughing stock amongst the majority of fans "in the know".
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"Speaking of Bob. The fact that this guy still claims to be one of the leading news sources on the internet is a total joke. By definition, and job description, this man’s occupation is to tow the company line for WCW. His occupation is to spread the WCW gospel to the listeners across the internet."
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"Bob Ryder either is the biggest mark in the business, or he allows himself and his other business –1wrestling.com, to be used by WCW in order to work internet fans. Read that again, Bob allows his site to be used by WCW to work fans......It’s really simple. Once you accept a check, benefits, fringes, payments, or any other “bribe” from an organization your integrity is compromised. It may not be so in your mind, but it is in the minds of every person that once looked at you for facts, and objectivity. The appearance of impropriety impacts everything you say, write, or imply. The fact that you can’t see that only magnifies the situation further."
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"In 1997 1wrestling.con condemned Vince Russo and the pornography of WWF's product. Ryder's high minded outrage ceased the day Russo became head writer at WCW."
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3. Tom Zenk replies to Ryder (12/28)
"And what exactly is Ryder's contribution to the wrestling business?"
"In the most recent 12/27 'Notes from Bob' (otherwise known as 'Notes from Eric') at 1wrestling.con - Bob Ryder gives me top billing as a heel for pointing out what's wrong with WCW. Interestingly Ryder doesn't respond to ANY of the issues I raised in my interview on the LAW (I guess Bob simply has no comeback). As usual Ryder, on behalf of his bosses at WCW, attempts to shoot the messenger, rather than confront the real issues at hand. But after all, that's the history of the company and its failure to learn the lessons of its past. I'm not going to argue my history in WCW with Bob Ryder who knows nothing about it. And I don't remember Ryder speaking up for any of the talent WCW misused over the years, (though I do recall him describing Ric Flair's son David as "The Second Coming"). Ryder asks, rhetorically, 'if Zenk knows so much about wrestling, why isn't he running one of the major companies?' - Good question Bob? Maybe that's something WCW might usefully consider. Everything considered, the implication of Bob's piece is that WCW management has been giving it their best shot. Maybe that's all that needs to be said about Ryder and his buddies and their contribution to the wrestling business. From Ole to Dusty to Bill Watts to Bischoff and stooges like Ryder, what a sad story of total, unremitting incompetence in squandering the best chance wrestling ever had under Ted Turner."
2. Bob Ryder's response on behalf of WCW management
Bob Ryder continues to argue his case (from a1wrestling.com)
"Tom Zenk made another one of his famous appearances on an internet audio show this past weekend, this time appearing on the LAW.
If you've heard one of these diatribes, you've heard them all.
Zenk has spent the last several months appearing on as many of these
shows as possible, and has taken shots at darn near everybody in the
wrestling business. He's blasted WCW and the WWF...McMahon and
Bischoff...and just about everybody else who has ever been involved in
the industry.You have to wonder what made this guy so bitter?
You also have to wonder...why does anyone care that he's bitter?
If he was such a great wrestler, why didn't he ever have a run as a main
event star? Zenk will say it was because of jealousy and because the
established stars held him back. That's a convenient excuse after the
fact...but the truth of the matter is that while he was an active
wrestler he was only successful when he latched on to more talented
performers who carried him along for the ride.If he's such a genius about the wrestling business, and if he has all
the answers to what is wrong with it...why isn't he running one of the
major organizations?It's always easy to mouth off on an internet show about what is wrong
with the world. It would easier to respect what he says if he had any
kind of a track record to prove that he's qualified to say the things he
says.He doesn't....and he isn't.
It's a sad commentary that these internet appearances have gotten Zenk
more "over" than anything he ever did in the ring. Maybe that says all
that needs to be said about Zenk's contributions to the wrestling
business."
1. Tom Zenk on The LAW
On Talk 640 Toronto
Host Jeff Marek
Saturday December 23, 2000
audio at liveaudiowrestling.comOn the WCW sale - Is Bischoff selling the company to himself?
Marek- "WCW looks like its going to end up in the control of Eric Bischoff - you've been quite outspoken on this as a huge conflict on interests."
Zenk- Well of course, these are the unanswered questions and you and the other wrestling journalists should blow this thing wide open -(1) Is it OK to sell WCW at a depressed price to the guy who made WCW unprofitable in the first place? A 'firesale to the arsonist'?
(2) Is there a conflict of interests between Bischoff being an employee of WCW being paid to sell the company to himself?
(3) What about Time Warner's fiduciary duty to its shareholders - is the sale giving shareholders the best possible return on their investment - are the shareholders getting best possible value from the sale?
(4) Has the company been undervalued by high paid workers like Hogan ($4 million a year) DDP and a host of others sitting at home, collecting mail box money, rather that working to add value to the company? Is this part of some plan?
Generation Y
Zenk - "Siegel would be insane to sign a non-compete clause with Bischoff. There's a whole new Generation of potential wrestling fans coming through now - Generation Y - Generation X is over. WWF captured them with D-Generation X and people cheering for heels. But there's a whole new generation now , the Millenial babies, the baby-boomers kids coming through and that the biggest new market since the baby-boomers after World War 2. And I just hope that Brad Siegel isn't so stupid that he signs a non- compete clause with Bischoff - because it's in all of our interests that TBS keeps its wrestling product. I think Fox quoted a study that showed that 40 percent of the WWF demographic was already Generation Y. I doubt if WCW even knows about Generation Y - seems to me they're still captives of the old baby-boomers and Hogan and the Flairites. Let Bischoff take his old carney crew and get out of there. Let's build with the young guys. Start with the young guys who can move and can compete. Go for the Y generation - that's where the new dollars and ratings are. And not just head-to- head Monday night wars but across ALL of the new AOL-Time Warner media. Wrestling is my first love ...but what they did to Ted Turner is atrocious. He's paying them a lot of money to wrestle - not just talk about it - so go in therre and show me the wrestling - put on some good matches - forget all the talk - let's wrestle - lets see what you've got. I think that's the Generation Y angle -
they're savvy - they see through the BS - their angle is - "Show us the wrestlinng." Anyway how tough is it to get a 2.0 or 3.0 rating.Marek - "For wrestling, its simple, just put wrestlers in tights on TV at prime time and you've got it - it's simple."
Zenk - "Thankyou. So I hope Bischoff just takes his old timer crew and goes run the roller derby or Battledome - and we'll take a fresh crew of TBS guyys and we'll start our own program and I bet within one year you could draw higher ratings. Siegel should NEVER NEVER sign a non-compete clause with Bischoff."
On Steiner, Page - 'Pillman hated Page's guts'
Zenk - "Page, you should throw yourself off a 5 story building rather than mess with Scoty Steiner. That would be the safer bet."
Marek - "Most people's first response to the fight was that Page is in love with Pillman so this has to be a work."
Zenk - "Page is a geek and Pillman hated his guts. Page has flown too high on borrowed wings. It's over for Page and it's over for a lot of the guys over 40. They're done. Sting never drew, Luger never drew. Flair put them all over. It's also over for Rick. He got a haircut to look like and put David over but if Rick loved the business so much, why would he put his son on TV. It's over for Hulk Hogan and all these other guys - "God love 'em BROTHER. God bless you BROTHER." It's over for Dusty Rhodes (impersonating Dusty) "Terri Runnels seems to be doing best of all the Runnels family because she learned her knowledge by penetration not deviation, if you weel."
"Nash and DDP are hobbling around in knee braces - Hogan is old - bald means old, right? - and still they try to hold on to the top spots. But in this business, if you're trained right, you learn respect. So you have your time climbing the ladder and then there's the back side.So these old guys don't have respect for the business - although they hide under the ruse of "We love the business, brother" - all that old "brother brother" business- but look at DDP - he won't put over his buddy Kanyon. He got Chris Kanyon a job, Kanyon's a great worker, he takes big bumps better than DDP - but he won't put Kanyon over in a match. DDP refused to work with him. It was 'beneath' DDP - I think DDP said there was nothing in it for him. But you have to give back. Like you learn in Japan, you build yourself up and then you put other people over for the sake of the company. You can't have an ego about this - to a certain degree ego is what makes you - but when you're 50 years old you should be putting younger guys over. But Flair and Hogan just can't give it up. I mean Flair and Dusty made millions - what did they do (what makes them want to keep top spot). Did they squander their money? Nash says he's a money market millionaire. What happened to the Millionaires Club -
they should all just F-off."On XFL
Zenk - "The XFL is going to be Vince's new 'sweat shop' - when guys like Benoit and Saturn find out that A-Rod Alex Rodriguez signed for $252 million - will they wear that? Vince is making more money gross than any baseball team and Vince desn't have one player making anything anywhere NEAR that sort of money. Not the Rock, Undertaker or Steve. Steve is a great talent but who would want to work with him with that problem with his neck. I don't think any wrestler would want the guilt of ending Steve's career with that neck injury. He's not cutting it, from what I understand and that may be why Vince came back. But Vince has spread himself too thin and what's going to happen when the XFL players start taking bumps and taking Vicodin and Percodin and the bodies start piling up with Governor Ventura and Dick Ebersol looking on. There's a huge scandal waiting to break."
On drug testing WWF and XFL
Zenk "Vince is the same guy in the (1994 steroids) court case who said Tom Zenk was the kind of guy who would take steroids from a garbage can. Well, if that's the case, I guess Vince was the one who tripped me on the way to the garbage can. Vince was the one getting packages from Dr Zahorian - there's no evidence that I ever got anything from Zahorian. Vince was an announcer - so what was he taking steroids for? I used them for bodybuilding and to make money off my body in wrestling when they were legal - and I took them when they were illegal to get the edge. But what was Vince self-medicating for as an announcer. I told his wife - you don't have any drug tests on me, otherwise you'd have used them in court. I'm sure one time I would have melted the cup but I guess it was OK because the Can-Am Connection was popular. Arnold Skoaland laughed and said "It's a bit gold kid, but you're OK go ahead." They all knew.
Jesse, the XFL and unions?
Zenk - "People in Minnesota are really on Jesse [for signing with WWF].. They ruled that Jesse isn't an employee of the State - so who employs Jesse? I don't know. Is that fuzzy maths? No, its politics. Jesse said in Playboy (the November issue,1999) that he's in favor of unionizing hookers or prostitution - whats the difference? - wrestling or prostitution? - we're jusst bickering over price. Ventura also went on the Larry King Live show with Bischoff after Owen died and said its time for wrestlers to unionize."
Marek- "I remember Jesse saying its time for wrestlers to have a union and then Vince got to him and paid him off for the Summerslam PPV. And then Jesse was saying "You know what? No-one forced Owen to be up there."
Zenk - "And Jesse - god love him, he's always been nice to me - and he's the one who gave my name to the Feds when they were investigating McMahon [for the 1994 trial]. Jesse told the Feds "Ask Tom Zenk - he
knows." Well Jesse has a Screen Actors Guild card so he's a union guy - I know Jesse's like that - he knows the value of unions and being loyal to the younger blue collar vote that put him over the top. He knows the whole story and its now or never for the wrestlers. And you should spread it to your guys. If they went on strike now - I know Vince is going to take a dive when he starts the XFL. He's spread himself too thin - like when he started the bodybuilders federation - I've seen this wave come and go beforee."Marek - "You can see it in the WWF product right now - Vince is just so burned out by the end of the day. When he gets the script for TV on Sunday he barely has enough time to go over the entire things and says "Just do it!"
Zenk - " Why don't you get Zahorian on your program - he knows the whole deal."
Marek - "Give me a contact number."
Tom - "He would be a great guest. I'm sure he knows all about all the tools in the tool box."
The year ahead.
Jeff - "I've got to wrap up but what does 2001 hold in store?"
Tom - "Well I'm going to keep burning it up. Wrestling is my first love but what they've done to the busines is atrocious. 2001 in wrestling? McMahon is ripe for the picking. Come the XFL, there's a big opportunity for TBS. That's why Turner should be repositioning itself for the next big thing - the new big wave of the Y Generation. And that's why TBS should refuse to sign a non-compete clause with Bischoff and reposition their product to this new audience using all the AOL-Time Warner media !"
