In July of 1998, with tremendous help from Eugene Son at www.yojoe.com, Larry Hama took some time from his busy schedule to do an interview with me. Larry Hama is a famous comic book sketcher and writer. His most notable works were the G.I.Joe comic books from Marvel, and writing the dossiers on all but one of the 3 3/4" G.I.Joe action figures. He is currently working on comics such as Generation: X, and Wolverine, as well as others.
Please tell us a little about yourself, where you are from, and how you identify yourself?
I was born in New York City (Manhattan) and was raised in Queens. I was a Boy Scout, I played alto sax in my Junior High School band and was active in the drama club and school paper. I went to the High School of Art and Design in Manhattan, majoring in advertising art and illustration. I played Kodokan Judo (on the NY Buddhist Church team) and studied kyudo (Zen archery) there. I was in the army from '69 to 71 in the Corps of Engineers. After I came home from the army, I was active in the Asian Movement in NYC. I worked on various projects at Basement Workshop in Chinatown, helped on mural projects with CitiArts Workshop, and did illustration for Bridge Magazine. My roots are Japanese-American. I am a Sansei (third generation American). I have never been to Japan, but I can speak rudimentary Japanese and read and write it at about the second grade level-- About as good as my French. My whole family was interned in the concentration camps during the war and pretty much lost everything they had. By the time Congress came around to compensate internees, my folks were long dead. They never seemed to express any bitterness about it. Most of the military-aged Nisei (second generation) at that time joined up and served in the 442nd and 100th in Italy and France, or in Military Intelligence in the Pacific. I am aware of my heritage, but it is not something that is wholly native to me. I think of myself as an American. If I walk down a street in Asia, the indigs know that I am not one of them. It's body language, attitude, a whole different aura and even smell. Too many dairy products!
What were some memorable experiences growing up as an American with Asian heritage?
Too numerous to mention. Any person of color growing up in America is going to run into a certain amount of prejudice, intolerance and just plain ignorance. I had a major epiphany when I was about twelve. I realized that my grandfather (who came over at the turn of the century!) wasn't at insulted when white people treated him disrespectfuly or even called him names. As far as he was concerned, he was in the land of the barbarians and it didn't matter in the least what a barbarian thought or said. It's like if you were in the middle of the jungle in borneo and some naked head-hunter with a bone through his nose laughed at you for wearing trousers and shoes-- You'd shrug it off. Getting angry at people for being ignorant is a waste of energy. It's better to use that energy to educate them.
So how did you get into sketching and writing? Was this a life-long dream, or did you just happen to pick up a pencil and discover your talent?
I always drew as a kid. I was an only child and my dad died when I was seven. I sat at home a lot and read and drew. I had teachers all along the way who encouraged me and helped me. I can't say enough good things about the New York City education system. Anyway, drawing was a way for me to escape.
You mentioned in an interview (with www.yojoe.com) that you were Marvel Comics' "last choice to write GI Joe comics," that it took you "eight years of writing G.I. Joe before convincing people you could write some other genre," and that people "did not think you were a good enough writer to do Saturday morning cartoons." Is the industry you are in extremely competitive, or do you think glass ceilings may exist, preventing certain people from being promoted "too high?"
That's a bunch of jive. There is no race-inspired glass ceiling in the comic biz. If you are green and purple and have five eyes, they will hire you if you can draw. Writing is a different matter. All the editors are writers. I think me and Joe Kubert and Mike Golden were about the only artist/editors ever hired at DC or Marvel. Writers and editors tend to regard us pencil pushers as idiot-savants at the best or "check-chasing hacks" at the worst. The glass ceiling involves fan-boy geeks turned editor sniffing your butt to see if you are one of them-- if you don't pass muster, forget it. This has pretty much led to the sorry state of the industry at present and the ever narrowing market. It is being niched to death. There seem to be two camps about this. At Marvel and DC, the control is firmly in the hands of WRITERS. They produce books with stories that make sense and sucky artwork. A few unnamed companies on the west coast are run by ARTISTS. They consider the story secondary, so their artwork is glam and fab and the writing SUCKS. BOTH of them have it wrong. If the story and art are not by the same person (the BEST of all possible worlds) then it has to be taken into consideration that this is a COLLABORATIVE medium and that the story and art are EQUALLY important.
What is your overall impression of the work you did with G.I.Joe? Creating all (but one) of the bio cards, writing about 155 comics, basically guiding the storyline and creating the characters from the start, do you feel that without you there would be no G.I.Joe, the real American Hero?
Oh, they would have found somebody else to do it. I don't know if they could have found somebody who was willing to stick it out to the bloody end, but they would have hornswaggled somebody into it. I wrote most of the Joe stories in the evening, after I put in a whole day at the office as an editor, and I still found time to play with my band at least two nights a week, keep up with the acting, serve as vice president of a shooting club, write screenplays (been paid for six of them) work in "Development Hell" in Hollywood, and start a family. It helps that I am an insomniac. You can't really ask anybody to judge their own work. I gave it the best shot I knew how. What do I think of it? I am dissatisfied with work I did last month. If you look back on the stuff you did in the past and start thinking it was terrific, then you are dooming yourself to stagnation. I think my best work is AHEAD of me.
I once told some younger children that an Asian American created G.I.Joe, and thus the real American hero could be anyone from any background. They preceeded to tell me that I was wrong, and that only (someone who resembled the character Duke, with blond hair and blue eyes) could be G.I. Joe. What would your response have been, if any? Do you ever feel that you are G.I.Joe, the real American Hero?
Ron Wagner's version of Storm Shadow was based on me. My own fantasy projection is Snake-Eyes. Those are my two favorite characters. The two sides of me. I never really gave much thought to the CHARACTERS of Duke or Hawk. They were authority figures, and I was concerned with the GRUNT'S POV.
G.I. Joe was the first toy line that I saw an American Indian (Spirit) character, as well as being one of the most diverse toy lines ever. What was your reasoning for doing this? Was it important for you to create characters that represented people from many backgrounds? Was it difficult for you to "sell" these characters to Marvel or Hasbro? How did your peers in the industry respond to the diversity in G.I.Joe? How did the general public respond to the toys of different ethnic origins differently (if at all) from the more "majority-representing" figures? Or was it a big deal at all?
No big deal. The REAL problem was getting Hasbro to do FEMALE figures! When I wrote the file cards, I had a map of United States that had an inset showing population density. I tried to spread out the hometowns as much as I could to give geographical diversity as well, but I tended to go with more populous areas. That's why there are more Joes from New York and California.
You mentioned that Storm Shadow is your ideal alter-ego. In ToyFare magazine, they made a reference to Tunnel Rat being molded in your likeness also. The bio for Tunnel Rat (my favorite figure, by the way) mentions that he is of Trinidadian-Chinese-Irish-Spanish and Indian descent. Although this may be considered an over-exaggeration by some, I know that I can easily identify myself as being Taiwanese-German-French-Irish-American, and so many people around the world can trace their heritage to such broad lineage. I really don't think a "pure race" exists, but anyway, by you incorporating such diversity into G.I.Joe, you really helped people with identity issues by giving them examples and role models they could relate with. Especially for women, you did such positive and progressive things with G.I.Joe. Do you think you made a lasting and memorable impression on both the fans and other toy and comic companies, or in your opinion could things be better, as far as toys and comics go in dealing with diversity?
I modeled for the sculptor who did the Tunnel Rat figure. This was at a time when Hasbro decided to use real people to give ideosyncratic looks to the figures. I never identified with the character himself. Tunnel Rat's origins mirror that of an old friend and former band-mate, Charlie Chin. I hardly made up ANY of the characters. They are mostly based on people I knew, some of whom's names are inscribed on the Wall in Washington. I don't know about lasting impressions. I wasn't out to prove anything or change anything. I was trying to do interesting stories about interesting characters. No ulterior motives, I'm afraid. I tried to write female characters who didn't go around with their palms nailed to their forehead like most women do in super hero comics. I think if a woman qualified to go on a combat mission, she should be treated just the same as everybody else.
I am a PK (Preacher's Kid), and thus my parents would NOT buy me G.I.Joe toys, or any war-related toys for that matter. From time to time I was able to convince my mother to get me the "peaceful" G.I.Joes, like Torpedo (who I said was an underwater explorer), Mutt & Junkyard (who I explained was the animal control agent), Scrap Iron (the sanitation engineer, as I viewed him), the ever popular Life Line (the medical practioner), and of course, Spirit (the Native American human rights activist). Needless to say, I was still able to produce little battles with these "peaceful" Joes, but many critics viewed G.I.Joe as promoting violence and war, and thus deemed them unsuitable for children. What are your views on this? Do you think G.I.Joe was too violent and harmful to children's upbringing? What were the goals and objectives you feel G.I.Joe met with children during its 12 year action figure run?
I think if was George Orwell who said, "Nobody ever made a penny from selling little toy pacifists." Toy soldiers have been around for a long time. Some of the oldest ones have been found in ancient Chinese tombs and in Egyptian pyramids. They are useful tools for children to work out aggression in PLAY form. The key words here are "act out". The problem with the Political Correctness Gestapo is that they don't seem to understand that most well-adjusted kids know the difference between reality and make-believe. Wally Wood once told me that any kid who jumps out of his window with a towel for a cape pretending he's Superman is doing the gene pool a favor, because we sure don't want him growing up to drive a tractor trailer down the same highway with us! I was brought up as a Buddhist. When I was a little kid, they used to pull a cinemascope screen down over the altar in the temple and show samurai movie double features instead of having bingo. I sat and watched heads and limbs get hacked off and knew full well that it was make-believe. I also remember the first time I entered a Christian church and saw a crucifix that was painted in life-like colors with dripping blood-- I was appalled and frightened. Everything is in the CONTEXT!
In 1992 there was a G.I.Joe Ninja Force on the market. What was the rationale for this? Was the line developed to meet the demand for ninja-oriented toys that was so popular in the late 1980's, or was this something you wanted to develop purely on your own accord?
This was a marketing move initiated by Hasbro.
We've already discussed the diversity that you put into the G.I.Joes, but focusing on Asians and Asian Americans, how many G.I. Joes did you create that had some sort of Asian heritage? Of these, how many did you peg as martial arts experts? Do you feel that Asians and Asian Americans and the martial arts being commonly related with each other is a stereotype? How easy was it for you to create Joes of Asian descent that had nothing to do with the martial arts, such as Tunnel Rat?
Never gave this much thought. I am not that obsessed with race. This can tend to get divisive. As soon as you label yourself with a hyphen, as in Asian-American, you set yourself apart-- You CREATE the division. My daughter is one quarter WASP and one quarter Polish. In her school, her classmates are an incredible melange of ethnic and racial mixes. You can't tell WHAT they are, and that's GOOD!! In a few generations, many of these divisive lines will be completely blurred. Maybe that is what America is really supposed to be about. A cauldron from which a pan-world culture will spring.
This question is for all us Hoosiers (residents of Indiana). Crankcase, the A.W.E. Striker driver, is named Indiana, Elwood G. on his bio card. Do you have connections to Elwood, a small Indiana town northeast of Indianapolis, or did you just throw a dart on a map to find out what Crankcase's name is? What were some tactics you used to come up with the names and codenames of all the G.I.Joe characters?
I think the inspiration for his name was Robert Indiana, the painter. I toyed with calling him Gary Indiana, but that seemed to be going too far. I knew a cartoonist named Elwood Smith, so I cobbled the two together. Some names I lifted from my mom's Sacramento High School yearbook.
For people who may not be all to familar with comics, what are your current projects? You mentioned you wrote some screenplays, where can fans of yours (both old and new) see and read your work outside of G.I.Joe? Are there any other toy lines or comic series you would recommend for people who are interested in diversity, multiculturalism, and Asian or Asian American issues?
I write Generation X for Marvel and some Batman material for DC. I am working on TV development projects at the present as well as a screenplay for a company in Berlin. I think some of the best comics being produced right now are coming out of Japan. I like Otomo, and Dragon Ball. I can watch Kiki's Delivery Service, My Neighbor Totoro and Legend of Laputa over and over. I'm also a big fan of Wallace and Gromit. I like fun, unpretentious stuff. I am not one for gothic and doom and gloom.
You made an excellent comment regarding "your best is yet to come," so what do you have planned for the future? What would you like to do now with all of your past and current success. What advice would you give to anyone who might be interested in the type of work you do?
Writing comics is my day job. What I DO is play rock and roll.