photo : The Canadian Cyclist
Sue Palmer's Viner Bike
photo : The Canadian Cyclist
Sue Palmer's Viner Bike
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Au début de mai 2003, on pouvait lire sur le FORUM de The Canadian Cyclist un échange de points de vue passionnés sur les conditions de vie et d'entraînement des cyclistes canadiens à quelques mois des Championnats du monde à Hamilton. Voici quelques uns des messages affichés. (Pour ceux d’entre vous qui ne sont pas familiers avec les forums, il vous faut vous habituer avec certaines libertés prises par les auteurs sous le couvert de l’anonymat…) |
Sue Palmer's Viner Bike
May 2, 2003 at 14:00:11 E.S.T. by David vanderLaan
On April 29, an interview and photo were published on this web site. In the interview, Sue talks about her second-place finish at Fleche Wallone and the fact that she needs to sell her Commonwealth Games Viner.
There is a line in the article: "I'd like to hope that whomever purchases it will immediately give it back to Sue or, better yet, a company will come forward and say 'we believe what you are doing is important and we want to support you".
I want to let everyone know that there were in fact two companies who believed in Sue - North American Bici out of Mississauga and Viner Italy. N.A. Bici and Viner saw that Sue had talent and stepped in when she needed a bike - that frame was given to her free of charge.
Sue is not only a talented rider but also a very kind lady. However, I thought it should be mentioned that someone did step in and say " we believe what you are doing is important and we want to support you".
This important fact was left out of that interview.
Regards ~
May 2, 2003 at 14:25
Point taken, but what Sue needs is CASH. Bikes and product do not get riders to races, pay their hotel and food, pay for incidentals like childcare and daily living expenses.
You cannot eat a bike.
May 2, 2003 at 14:45
"I need the money after all the racing this spring, there's a lot of bills to pay."
I think that is the main "drift" of the article.
Yes maybe it would be nice to have said thanks, but from the way I read it she is in desperate straights right now if she wishes to continue racing.
May 2, 2003 at 15:06 by David van der Laan
Well, yes, obviously the gist of the article is about Sue's financial burdens. However, what was written was "I'd like to hope that whomever purchases it will immediately give it back to Sue or, better yet, a company will come forward and say 'we believe what you are doing is important and we want to support you"… and that makes it seem as though Sue had had never been given any kind of sponsorship. I don't think that is entirely fair to her sponsors, the people who believed in her in the first place.
protest
May 2, 2003 at 15:58
What other rider that has Sue's palmares is going without a substantial ride? with pay. I don't think she is protesting too much at all.
May 2, 2003 at 16:08
There is more to being a sponsored rider then just riding your bike. The original post proves this. Why would I give her a bike, a ride, support if I gain nothing from it but a warm fuzzy feeling? Where is the advertising for her sponsors? Do you ever see an interview with Genevieve without Rona something or other on, or her say how good her Colnago is? (I have seen enough interview with GJ this year on OLN, to know this is the case) but in the interview, Palmer makes it seem like no one is helping her. Nice...ever wonder why she isn't riding for Saturn?
May 2, 2003 at 17:16
Sue left Saturn to follow the money in MTB but she sucked. She then got pregnant and kept her carding money under a "injury clause" and thanks to Pierre H. What a scam!
Sure, Sue is a great person but face up to reality and give up on your "dreams". If you can't feed your child or pay for daycare then get a real job!
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May 2, 2003 at 19:24.
This is unbelievable. Sue gets silver in Manchester, silver at the Fleche, top 10 at Worlds, always rides for the Nat. team when needed and you say "get a real job". This is shameful. Obviously there are some very, very bitter people out there. Dont take your frustrations out on Sue, she is the nicest person you will ever meet and represents Canada as well as or better then anyone else who puts on a Canadian uniform. When she does well you are probably one of the first to claim her as one of your own. So she got pregnant and kept her carding - she still is finishing among the best in the world. If it was a job with any company then she would get maternity leave. If she was injured then no problem. Sue has shown that she can still be among the best. Who should be funded - someone who finishes off the back ?
And for David V. - good on you for supporting her, but be real: $$$ are needed to compete internationally. I bet you wouldn't be giving her bikes if she wasn’t doing well so your motives aren’t completely altruistic.
May 2, 2003 at 20:01
Sue is a great rider at the top of the hill. If she wants to continue riding at the top, she will have to accept the constraints of a pro contract. There is no free ride for anyone. In any case, I don't believe a word of it. This is sensationalism at its best. Most pros. have to sell a bike or two the following season to keep the cash flow going. CC has stirred up an emotional hornet's nest here out of nothing. Sue has the support of her family. She wants for very little. She does have a reputation and history for whining about money though. Let's give it a break.
May 3, 2003 at 11:10 by skinsuit
Home Depot has a great sponsorship plan.
They hire the athlete and pay for a 40 hour work week (with benefits). The athlete works only 20 hours a week and the other 20 are for training and racing. It is a great plan. Sue should check with Home Depot Canada.
I know all about work/family/racing. I cannot afford a nanny nor can I afford daycare for our two children. My husband and I really have to trade off a lot of things to accomplish quality training. I am the only one employed in our family and we are considered a low income family. I ride and race on a 13 year old bike, and as a result have a unique set of goals.
I look up to Sue and other fantastic athletes, know the struggle to keep food on the table. But she must do what is necessary, work, marketing or whatever it takes. Sometimes the way that the story comes across is as though the athlete is sitting back and waiting for something to happen. It would be nice to know the actions and sponsors that she has contacted in order to change her situation. She is a fighter out on the bike, is she a fighter for maintaining her racing lifestyle ?
There is no shame, when the carding is lower than welfare to apply for other means of support.
Just some thoughts.
The reality of it all
May 3, 2003 at 13:22
Is Sue not riding for the CCA team that is supposed to be promoting Hamilton World's? Does she get a salary for this? Surely the interviews, pr stuff and attending world's functions is worth something to CCA and the local organizers and community. Regardless of whether you think Sue whines or protests, the fact remains any local rider in line to compete in a local World Champs in any sport in any country would not be worrying about their racing/training bills. Not only is Sue the local hero, she's a damn good one too. Results of real significance the past year and Canada's top performer at the world's for many years. Not the most vocal rider on the team, but a solid individual who can be counted on to be at her peak in Hamilton. With a 10 mil budget for the Worlds, how about the Hamilton group sign Sue up to a meaningful pr contract - in return for the interviews, presenting their logo and appearances pay her.
I don't think the folks at the CCA or the Hamilton Organization work for free. Why should Sue not feel a bit put out that there are some people making some good personal contracts because of the Worlds project and she has certainly paid her dues, is at the right place at the right time and then does not see her financial position improved at all. Yes, love of the sport and all those nice ideals. You go Sue, eat some air and ride on love. If Sue wins a medal in Hamilton or plays a big part in one being won by a teammate, the media, event sponsors and CCA will be all over her. She will have done a great service to cycling in Canada. But there will be no great performance bonus from the CCA sponsors or big endorsement contract. She will not retire with a pension or a retirement plan. So if Sue whines a bit at her state after representing Canada, perhaps we should grant her this whine.
She's certainly not the only top class athlete in Canada in this position. There is some decent govt money for sport in Canada, but athletes are not the one getting the executive salaries (or even basic salaries), health care benefits, a pension plan, or performance bonuses. If the administration and the coaches make a good living, why should the athletes with world class performances not expect the same?
I don't think the athletes expect to make a fortune, but why should an elite performer be paying for training and competition expenses when the employees of Sport Canada are on full expense accounts.
To the Home Depot suggestion poster, give it a break - yes a great program for developing athletes (good on ya home depot), but that's not gonna help Sue in Hamilton if she is working 20h/week in the gardening section. Canadian Cycling needs a Sue who is able to be 100% focused on her job for World's. Reality is that the top riders in the world are prepping for World's as full time athletes, not part timers. It's a super fine line between a medal and 20th. Each ounce of energy lost could be critical for a top result, this is reality - not fantasy.
To the comment of others struggling with bike and family - please do not compare your position with Sue's. On Oct 12th (?) she will be standing on the start line next to the most talented and best prepared riders in the World with all the eyes of the country and community on her. Sure it's by choice she does this. If Sue wins, great. If not, there will always be that nagging question about a lack of resources taking some of her energy that could have gone into her race. Is Sues responsibility to ride and to also find the funding support for herself ?
I think ideally Sue should just ride her bike and leave the marketing funding procurement to the experts paid by Sport Canada to do so. Sue pointed out Clara's situation in Quebec being so much different from her own. Seems like Sport Canada should be looking to the Quebec model for a National one. That could give Canada a lot more Olympic medals and world titles to feel good about and high profile athletes to motivate kids to do sport.
Salaries and Sheila
May 4, 2003 at 13:01
Anyone knows the salaries for the top people in the Hamilton World's organization. Would be interesting to compare their take against Sue's zero.
Not that they don't deserve their salaries for the work they are doing, but for some reason in his country (except Quebec) it seems the 'athlete centered' system is just lip service from Sport Can. for the public. It seems that when a top athlete who has given years of service still struggles to pay training costs to compete at a 'home worlds' the money is either not there or going in the wrong direction.
It's great to have these big events in our country, but I don't understand why we put so much public money into the event and then ask our top athletes (who we expect to perform) to win medals while trying to live close to poverty. Mr/Ms. Minister please explain?
I am sure Sheilia Copps has copped a few photo-op's with local hero SP. Maybe Sheila would like to buy SP's bike for 20 grand? Looks like she has a few donuts to burn off.
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Salaries
May 4, 2003 at 17:28 by Boo Yah
Whether Sheila makes too much money or not or has eaten too many donuts or not, why can't you get it through your head this fact:
If you do a job people want done and/or you make other people a lot of money, you'll make a lot of money. If you don't you won't. It has nothing to do with how hard someone works or how much they have to struggle.
Cycling is nice, but how many Canadians do you think are making more money cycling than they could make otherwise ? Ten maybe ?
How about Belgians or Italians, lots. That's why those countries have the depth in cycling that they do, it's supported by economic interests. Sue's problem is compounded by the fact she's a woman (no shit sherlock), and women's sport is not as popular/financially rewarding as men's. There's not much that can be done to change that in the short term.
Last post is WRONG!
May 4, 2003 at 18:01
Support for cycling is not grounded in economics - economic gains (losses?) result from success (failure) on the bike. Success or failure in cycling, therefore, does not follow from working hard for your sponsors (i.e. PR) but from working hard to overcome one's shortcomings on the bike - that is winning races despite one's natural deficiencies - physical, psychological, social or otherwise.
Ryder, Roland, Wolberg, Jeanson all fit this description, as do successful European pros. There is simply NO OTHER WAY to account for their success. This makes the task HORRENDOUSLY difficult, but also EMINENTLY clear.
I urge you, for my benefit, your benefit, and the benefit of Canadian cycling to argue otherwise!!
May 4, 2003 at 20:04
Sue should get the hell out of Hamilton, stop prostituting herself to Pierre H, move to the States, sign a pro contract and get on with life.
If she persists in worrying about the success of the Worlds in Hamilton and this does her no useful monetary advantage, she has made a decision and cannot complain. Or whine.
Oh, she probably needs to leave some baggage behind as well.
Her decision.
May 4, 2003 at 20:04
Has anyone bought the bike?
Boo yah is right
May 4, 2003 at 21:38
The worlds don't need Sue. Steve Bauer brings the name power for the organization now, and Lance will draw the fans.
I hate to say it, but it's the CCA that needs Sue. Pierre H knows this more than anyone, but right now it's the worlds that are paying, not the CCA. And the worlds don't care who wins. They just have to get the event to go off well and leave a modest surplus.
Same thing at the major games. The folks paid to organize the events are not at all professionally interested in Cdn performance, even though they may be personally.
At the Commonwealth Games in 94, and the Winnipeg Pan ams, tracks got short changed (Vic lost the planned tunnel, Winnipeg lost the whole track) just because it was good business for the administrators to do so.
We need a good Nor-am pro circuit that can pay the riders. We can't ask the worlds to fix all our problems.
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May 5, 2003 at 9:25 by whine and jeez
To go back to the original CC story and photo, I just thought the whole thing was kinda sad and embarrassing. Whether it was SP's or CC's initiative, I am sick and tired of the poor, starving Canadian athlete schtick ('Will sell bike for food'). Sorry, but in a country where other good (and resourceful) athletes shoulder the responsibility of making ends meet, I have little time for the 'it's not fair' crowd.
I personally know athletes in other sports who have been in Sue Palmer's situation - good but not quite good enough to attract team/sponsor support based on results alone - who have either come up with creative ideas to present to sponsors, or have organized their own fund raising activities to augment their Sport Canada/sport governing body carding money. Using your network - friends, family, community etc. - can help you get the support you need. But as soon as you start thinking that 'it's not fair, someone else always gets the breaks', you're done. Someone else always WILL get the breaks.
May 5, 2003 at 17:36
Because they give her a bike they own her ? Get a life. If it were truly given, she has the right to do with it as she pleases. If the bills are mounting up, and selling is the way to get in control ? By all means sell the thing, or N American should ante up a little cash. After all it is the $ that makes the world go round.
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