· I collected them (1) to illustrate that there _are_ quite a lot of people working to build a positive future for themselves and the rest of the world, but conversely (2) to show that such unusual people (separated like raisins in a bun) need e-mail (e.g. list-server lists) to keep in touch and not go mad.

· Those posts are followed by: "ONE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM", #582 in:
RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY.

· This is at: http://www.oocities.org/davd.geo/Mostly-WhoAm-I_PF-1996-1998.html

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- {The items nearly at the bottom, below  X - X - X - X, aare to do 
        with shampoo chemicals etc.}
             ^^^^^^^

- {The bottom item is about corporations,, from RACHEL's WWEEKLY.}
- - -      ^^^^^^^^
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From ???@??? Mon Mar 09 09:48:19 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Sun, 8 Mar 19988 12:47:34 -0800  (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980309094552.0074339c@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 09:45:52 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Jan A---
Subject: Who are you? (fr Jim's wife Jan: Internet vs. letters or in person)
-~-~-~-~ ^^^^^^^^^^^

When I was a teen, I had a pen pal in England. We wrote words back and forth across the ocean. I had her picture, the smell of her letters and a few small gifts she had sent. I knew her. In this new age of technology I find us being more and more apart from one another. Perhaps my work (Massage) makes me more wanting to kinetically know who you are; perhaps it is because I am not knowledgeable of computers or the internet and my husband has had to "log on" for me and will post this message.

My husband and I have enjoyed many discussions based on things you have posted and I will continue to listen and enjoy this forum vicariously through him. Anonymity creates safety to express oneself, but the price is isolation. I suppose if you are using this medium for communication the idea of letter writing would seem odd. Oh well... I still have some of those letters from England and that was over 30 years ago!

Jan A---

-- We dance around in a ring and suppose But the Secret sits in the middle and knows

______________________________________________________________________
Th[ese] message[s were] from the positive-futures discussion list.
Mail public replies to: <positive-futures@igc.topica.com>
Mail private replies to the author of the message, listed in the"From"
field in the internet header.
To subscribe to this list by e-mail, send a blank e-mail To:
Positive-Futures-subscribe AT topica.com [incorrect]
To unsubscribe from this list by e-mail, send a blank e-mail To:
Positive-Futures-unsubscribe AT topica.com [incorrect]
 - - - - - - - - Positive Futures used to be run by EcoNet. - - - - - -
EcoNet is a private, non-profit online network which seeks to serve
the environmental community.  Put your online spending to work
for the environment through EcoNet.  For information, send a message
to <econet-info@econet.org>
______________________________________________________________________

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From ???@??? Tue Mar 10 14:25:01 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Mon, 9 Mar 19988 09:57:50 -0800  (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980310065709.00739a8c@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 06:57:09 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Vicki M--- <.-.-.@spacelab.net>
Subject: Who Am I?

I used to work as a teacher but gradually found full-time work to be incompatible (for me) with maintaining a sane and balanced home life. So I now work freelance as a computer consultant, tutor, and doula. The money is up and down but my life is so much saner.

This journey toward conscious living has involved getting rid of tv, buying almost all things second-hand (or waiting to see what I need put out by someone else; I recently found a perfect condition black blazer of extremely high quality in my size hanging on a fence post), and trying to cook from scratch from whole foods bought at our food coop.

I find great inspiration from this list, as there aren't that many people I meet in my *real* life who are on this journey.

Vicki

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From ???@??? Wed Mar 11 07:52:33 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Tue, 10 Mar 19998 10:51:21 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980311074454.00738498@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:44:54 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Michele H---
Subject: Who Am I?

I started tightwadding - following the principles as set forth by Amy Dacyczyn of The Tightwad Gazette - about a year & a half ago. I try to buy in bulk whenever possible, yard sale, & "treasure hunt" any other items I might need. We have found tightwadding to be a liberating rather than degrading experience, in that it has allowed us to dig ourselves out of debt & have enough "extra" cash to buy things that we feel will truly enrich our lives.

A few months ago, I got YMOYL from the library (It was recommended by Amy Dacyczyn). After reading it, I realised that this was something that I wanted to do. I have felt for a while that my life was not fulfilled - my values don't line up. I'm still a newbie to the concept of FI, but am looking forward to putting in the time to do the steps as laid out by Joe & Vicki.

I am unaware of anyone else in this area who even SAVES MONEY (what a concept!), much less is actively working toward FI, so this Support Circle IS my support circle. I'm hoping to learn a lot from all of you - and hopefully, I'll have something to contribute as well.

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From ???@??? Wed Mar 11 07:52:14 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Tue, 10 Mar 19998 10:50:51 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980311074549.00694cd8@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:45:49 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Keith C. H--- <.-.-.@victoria.tc.ca> 
Subject: Re: Who Am 

Here is my brief bio. I am halfway through my 50th year, divorced and living with my son in Victoria BC. American born, Canadian by choice. I was trained as a meteorologist and worked in government and industry until I moved to the West Coast for a new job and was laid off within a year. Needless to say, such jobs are not easy on an island. The loss of job totally changed my life: divorce, moving to an apartment, no steady income, some health problems (small but enough to stimulate thinking on what I wanted from life). I decided to start my life over again doing it my way as much as possible, spending time honing my writing and poetry skills.

I have been into simpler living since the 70s, influenced by the Nearings and Mother Earth News. Unfortunately half of my saving lost to divorce. One day two years ago I decided that one major thing I wanted to do was help people live more gently, placing economic, social and environmental aspects all on the same plan. I thus started the magazine Living Gently Quarterly whose sixth issue has just come back from printers.

I have also been involved with the environmental movement, being one of the founder of the Skies Above Foundation. I have moved away from them mostly due to a difference of attitude. I did not see the sky falling, although I think we have major environmental problems to address. The move combined with my opening awareness of the world around me has now lead me to start The Weather Doctor, a website and educational enterprise which promotes the beauty and sensuality of weather and the atmosphere and the pastime of weather watching. ("Weather Eyes" are always looking up!)

There is lots more, but then I would be boring you. ;-)

Rainbows!

Keith

Keith C. H---
Editor/Publisher "Living Gently Quarterly"
Visit our website at: http://www.islandnet.com/~see/living.htm

Coming Soon: The Weather Doctor Presents "Weather Eyes"
http://www.islandnet.com/~see

"And just like an eagle, I'm free.."

> My name is Michele H... I am a 28 yr. old wife and musician who is employed as a Network Systems Administator for a manufacturing company. I live in a double house (apartments up & down) in the Old Brooklyn Neighborhood in the City of Cleveland. My husband (Jay) works as an Adjunct Professor of Music at nearby Baldwin-Wallace College.

> I started tightwadding - following the principles as set forth by Amy Dacyczyn of The Tightwad Gazette - about a year & a half ago. I try to buy in bulk whenever possible, yard sale, & "treasure hunt" any other items I might need. We have found tightwadding to be a liberating rather than degrading experience, in that it has allowed us to dig ourselves out of debt & have enough "extra" cash to buy things that we feel will truly enrich our lives.

> A few months ago, I got YMOYL from the library (It was recommended by Amy Dacyczyn). After reading it, I realised that this was something that I wanted to do. I have felt for a while that my life was not fulfilled - my values don't line up. I'm still a newbie to the concept of FI, but am looking forward to putting in the time to do the steps as laid out by Joe & Vicki.

> I am unaware of anyone else in this area who even SAVES MONEY (what a concept!), much less is actively working toward FI, so this Support Circle IS my support circle. I'm hoping to learn a lot from all of you - and hopefully, I'll have something to contribute as well. >

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From ???@??? Wed Mar 11 07:52:27 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Tue, 10 Mar 19998 10:51:06 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980311074658.007295f8@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:46:58 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Fereshteh H--- <.-.-.@utoronto.ca> 
Subject: who am I

- has more details. I love this discussion group because I can read "tips" anywhere but here I can discuss the underlying issues.

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From ???@??? Wed Mar 11 07:52:30 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Tue, 10 Mar 19998 10:51:16 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980311074531.00739560@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:45:31 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: mpirkle
Subject: Hello...bio

Since I saw the request for bio's, I thought I would send in mine (don't know why?). I currently spend my working hours managing computer networks at a health insurance company in Tacoma, Washington. Please don't judge me by this!

I have a profound desire to spend my time in artistic pursuits where my college degree is; art (specifically oil painting landscapes).

I discovered YMOYL in April 1997 and have been plugging away... gung-ho... in getting out of debt and focusing on an employment free life. The largest impact on my life has been turning off the tv, de cluttering my life, and "trading" my computer work (which I do a lot of on the side) for other services that I need (so far a hot water tank repair and a break job on my truck). Yes, barter works!

I know to some of you on this list, this may seem trivial, but I am in complete joy that I can barter my computer skills for other things. What really amazes me is that when I barter services, I have an incentive to more than, and receive more in return. that the almighty dollar can give. Pride; workmanship; enjoyment; ownership; joy! Like a bullfrog with a still, I am grin 'in!

Last October, I began volunteering for Habitat for Humanity. Every Saturday since, I go and pound nails for this organization. What a wonderful feeling! Working as a volunteer. I go to work with folks who could care less what I do for a living, and who could care less how I got there. Don't get me wrong... I am speechless that I don't have to explain myself. I don't have to be a father there, or a husband, or a parent, or a teacher. I can just be with these folks, work hard and get a house built. WOW!
If you want to loose your old person, volunteer!

I am into voluntary simplicity for the good things; I want a simple life, I don't want strangers running my show; I want to survive on my knowledge and desire for learning more so than dollars and cents. I want to walk into the wild country and give back more than I receive. I want to please the rough gems, the stones and the bedrock.

I am not interested in pleasing others with my wit or brawn; I solely seek out the measure of life in me and apply it to what I can do for others, and; of course, myself.

I am interested in this list because I find it to be a feeding ground for the intellect of voluntary simplicity. A compost of ideas. Sometimes it seems to be a bother to understand the intellect of voluntary simplicity, as it seems to be a oxymoron. Other times a delight. Go fish.

There I leave you; with love; in my side mirrors.

Peace!

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From ???@??? Wed Mar 11 07:52:36 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Tue, 10 Mar 19998 10:51:11 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980311074627.0072db6c@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:46:27 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Vicki M--- <.-.-.@spacelab.net> 
Subject: Re: Who Am I?

It's a woman who "mothers the mother." I work with women who have just had babies, providing breastfeeding support, help with household chores, cooking, etc. Some doulas also do labor support; they are with the woman all through labor and birth.

Don't feel ignorant; not that many people know what a doula is!

Vicki

(Sorry to reply to the list, but my mail to jennifer kept getting returned.)

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From ???@??? Wed Mar 11 07:52:38 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Tue, 10 Mar 19998 10:51:28 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980311074443.0073f774@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:44:43 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: "B---, Patricia J."
Subject: RE: Who are you? e-mail positives

trish

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From ???@??? Wed Mar 11 07:52:41 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Tue, 10 Mar 19998 10:51:38 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980311074843.00688580@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:48:43 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: James R R---
Subject: Re: Who Am I?

I've been erratic in my own practice of VS, succumbing to the massive personal spending of the '80's, for example. But a personally traumatic job loss in the early 90's, followed by relocation from the Midwest to the Bay area a couple of years back, plus a lot of introspection seem to have put me back 'on the right track.' The job loss forced me to reassess attitudes toward 'work' and 'commitment,' and consequently I am a happier, healthier, and less naive worker than before. At this point, my wife and I agree we own "just enough" to meet our needs, provide some comforts and a few inexpensive and occasional treats. Moving west enabled us to downsize our clutter, and the possessions that once filled a 2 bedroom house with full basement and a 2 car garage now fit comfortably in a 1 bedroom apartment and a rented storage locker. And I'll think we'll lose the storage locker before this year is over.

I've been on several related listservs, but joined "positive futures" because I wanted more than advice on decluttering or tips on living frugally. I really agree with whoever it was that said we need to de-emphasize critiquing the flaws of the culture we're immersed in, and instead start envisioning and living in the culture we want to inhabit. (I know I've paraphrased this poorly -- apologies to its creator.) I don't actively proselytize to those around me, but hope that, by example, others will see that there are alternative ways to look at and interact with the world, and perhaps begin their own self-assessment. And, too, I joined this list because I seem to be living in the Consumer Capital of the Industrialized World, and there are times it feels somewhat lonely. And while e-mail may be more impersonal than face-to-face, phone, or snail mail, it's comforting to know others out there are looking at similar issues, and proposing possible alternative solutions.

And, too, I figure any list where Tom Gray is an active participant will be thought-provoking and worth reading : )

Jim R.

"An idea isn't responsible for the people who believe in it." -- Don Marquis

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From ???@??? Wed Mar 11 09:43:52 1998
- Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:41:12 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980311084511.0072683c@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:45:11 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Tom Gray  
Subject: Re:  self-sufficiency/community dichotomy?

> >I find it odd, this yearning for utter financial independence
> >on one hand and for cohousing on the other.  Anyone else see this
> >as a bit contradictory?
> >
> >Tom

> Actually, I think this contradiction between self-sufficiency and a yearning for community is at the heart of being an American.

> Since living in community is sometimes hard and we've had the freedom geographically to just move on, we have historically embraced self-sufficiency.

> Personally, I find this dichotomy alive in me. I love the idea of a communal living situation, but finding actual human beings I could tolerate living with is a whole nuther deal!

I appreciate the thoughtful comments others have made in response to my posting, and will try to respond to them as time permits.

Tom http://www.econet.org/frugal

(and now for a quote that appears to contradict me 8^))

"Simplicity and nonviolence are obviously closely related. The optimal pattern of consumption, producing a high degree of human satisfaction by means of a relatively low rate of consumption, allows people to live without great pressure and strain and to fulfill the primary injunction of Buddhist teaching: 'Cease to do evil; try to do good.' As physical resources are everywhere limited, people satisfying their needs by means of a modest use of resources are less likely to be at each other's throats than people depending upon a high rate of use. Equally, people who live in highly self-sufficient local communities are less likely to get involved in large-scale violence than people whose existence depends on world-wide systems of trade."--E. F. Schumacher, "Buddhist Economics," SMALL IS BEAUTIFUL

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From ???@??? Wed Mar 11 13:48:22 1998
- Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:45:52 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980311132412.007055b0@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:24:12 +1300
From: Cheryl D---
Subject: Re:  who I am
Cc: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.

We read YMOYL last year, and consequently the tightwad gazettes. I wish I had heard of them years earlier, I could have saved a lot more.

We both have some health problems, so our main concern in life is resting, eating well, and trying to regain some of our health back. I plan to trade work in exchange for food at one of several small organic farms/orchards in the area. Eventually, I would like to hold some workshops on frugal living. But, for right now, we are kicking back, taking it easy, and enjoying life!

Cheryl D

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From ???@??? Thu Mar 12 09:40:28 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Wed, 11 Mar 19998 12:38:08 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980312093719.00713070@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:37:19 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Mark M---
Subject: My introduction to you all

My name is Mark, and I feel privileged to be able to share and learn so much from you all. Your self-introduction messages are fascinating. Here's my attempt:

This week I'm 52. Four daughters (three married) comprise the single-parent family now. Grew up in the suburbs of Cleveland, Ohio, in a housing project, where life was fairly simple. That made an impression, for which I am grateful, but have a long way to go before my voluntary-simplicity (VS) life gets where it should be. Am still giving stuff away from the house here. Am a military veteran of the Sixties. After college I ended up with the government, mostly overseas, 'till the 'buy out' two years ago. Now there's some volunteer work (outdoor groups) and teaching in the evenings. Letter writing to state and fed representatives takes up a bit of my time. The last issue of "YES" magazine had me busy writing as well. Some community environmental work. I also do some lay-ministry work with a church. Have several projects around the house here, and a veg garden which is wonderful.
No TV to speak of. Instead spend time biking, hiking, and dancing (CW). Old car gets me around. Besides the Positive-Futures Network, I have lots and lots of special interests, including my children, photography, building projects, amateur 'ham' radio, and naturopathy medicine (family publication & involvement since 1900). Am trying to learn to cook better, get rid of the stuff in the house, and practice the VS techniques and approaches we all read about.

My children are watching all this, so it will be interesting to see how much of it rubs off. Also, I may forward to them the text of some of YOUR bio's and lifestyles! As for me, there's still much to learn and do. Thanks for your help. Mark (in Virginia)

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From ???@??? Thu Mar 12 09:40:31 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Wed, 11 Mar 19998 12:38:43 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980312093653.0071f488@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:36:53 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Gwen B---
Subject: Re: who I am

We've always lived frugally and never had any debts other than our mortgage. We've also always been interested in "going back to the land". However, circumstances (particularly a deaf, special needs child) has prevented that, so we live in the suburbs of Richmond, Va.

In the past year I began making an even more concerted effort at frugality, after coming close to being in debt from a home-based business. I decided that the best job I could do would be to manage our money wisely. As I worked on saving money I also started becoming more aware of the environment and the impact that my family and other people have on it. Unfortunately, that awareness has been quite depressing! Meanwhile I can teach my children, who will hopefully influence their peers and help to change their perspectives on the environment.

Gwen B---
Richmond, VA

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From ???@??? Thu Mar 12 09:40:34 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Wed, 11 Mar 19998 12:38:30 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980312093705.0071aa00@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:37:05 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: "x.z." Malcolm
Subject: Who am I?

I got exposed to personal finance about two years ago via Beth Kobliner's book *Get a Financial Life: Personal Finance in Your 20's and 30's* - that led me to start reading personal finance magazines at the library; I was introduced to YMOYL from an article in either Money Magazine or Kiplingers.

There was very little in YMOYL that was new to me; I was already a fan of Thoreau, and I had never lived a wasteful lifestyle. I remember wanting to live off investments as early as 18; although I never had any money to invest because I never made much money, and nearly all of my money went into my shit-box car. I've been carless now for about 2 years and am saving a bundle.

The same article led me to Amy however-you-spell-her-last-name's "tightwad" books; I thought a lot of her methods of saving money were over-the-edge, but I admired her resolve to raise a family on one small salary. I figured: if she can do that with a family of 4, I can do much better as a single person without resorting to extremes.

YMOYL wasn't news; but it *was* inspirational; I was ready to hear its message - or at least portions of it. What struck me most was the working-for-a- finite-period-of-time portion; that I could do this; that nobody else was going to define success in life for me.

Having studied philosophy for 4 years, having already gone through many "mid-life crises" about mortality, my place in the universe, etc, I consider myself lucky.

Even though I'm not in a high-salary job (though my profession is high- salary - if you want to be a slave to the workplace...), my student loans are now paid off; I'm 100% debt-free; I've saving/investing ~ 1K a month; I don't work more than 40 hours a week. My next achievement will be more vacation time to see the world, volunteer, and pursue other interests - this may involve a move overseas - In Australia, for example, it's not uncommon for secretaries, or whoever, to save-up, quit their jobs, and travel for months - coming back to the job market without a problem - the gov't gives everyone a month of paid vacation by law; and many can even take extended leave plus holiday time and return to their jobs afterwards; imagine trying to pull that one off in America without being pregnant or having a sick parent. In Australia, wanting large chunks of time off isn't viewed as an aberration.

America is hostile to my way of life; so I'll probably give it the boot in the next few years. I'm a citizen of the world. Y'all can have corporate america.

Oh yeah, I've started an on-line/print publication to document possibilities for leaving the rat race: http://www.apocalypse.org/pub/u/x/zines/

- Malcolm

-- |- | User bumbling. |- - |
| Xochi Zen | Server crashing. |- - |
| x@apocalypse.org| Glub, glub, glub.|- - |
<-------------------------------------------------------------------------->

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From ???@??? Thu Mar 12 09:40:38 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Wed, 11 Mar 19998 12:38:56 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980312093631.00725de0@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:36:31 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Robyn A---
Subject: Who Am I ?

- But that is a different discussion (sorry about the digrression), ... where was I? Oh yeah, an intro. ...
- We own a TV from our pre-VS days but waatch it very rareely (3-5 hours a year including video movies). My hobbies include making quilts, gardening, and cooking. I'm learning to cook more and more interesting vegan foods. I do Yoga for stress reduction, and to improve my health I have started jogging 20 mins a day three days a week. I have no children but I'm trying to change that soon.
- I don't have many barterable skills (orr much physical sstrength due to a severe chronic illness) though I provide a free asthma information service to a broad community of friends, relatives, etc. ... ;). ...

- - robyn

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From ???@??? Thu Mar 12 09:40:43 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Wed, 11 Mar 19998 12:39:04 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980312093616.00729c14@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:36:16 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Mike N--- <.-.-.@umich.edu> 
Subject: Who Am I?

I work as a project manager at the University of Michigan, an occupation I've come to loathe. I've discovered that I am a designer and developer at heart and nagging other developers to do projects that I long to do myself is too painful. I'm looking at two jobs right now: one in Berkeley, doing development for a company that processes healthcare claims forms and the other is in Ann Arbor, developing multimedia software to help people improve their health by quitting smoking, doing early cancer detection, wearing a bike helmet, and so forth. It's causing us a bit of stress as the idea of moving to CA doesn't appeal to Christie, though it has a ring of adventure in it for me. On the other hand, the job in Ann Arbor is probably a better fit for my skills. Needless to say, it is a little stressful.

We live in a smallish house (about 800 sq ft) that we bought a few years ago after living in an apartment on our University campus. Both of us are interested in farm living, for the fresh air, open spaces, and attention to the rhythms of the planet. Christie grew up on a dairy farm so she especially longs for this. For now, we enjoy what the city has to offer.

Christie and I are both finishing master's degrees in Information this term, specializing in Human-Computer interaction and interfaces. Christie has undergraduate degrees in history and German, mine is in Computer Engineering.

I got interested in voluntary simplicity after reading Ecotopia, by random chance or coincidence I don't know. This opened up a whole area for me of different ways of living, voluntary simplicity, ecology, and so forth. I joined the local Green party and by chance I also bought the book "Your Money or Your Life." In the past, I lived from paycheck to paycheck, buying all of the computer toys I wanted, adding more and more credit cards. Some of that equipment I've sold and given away and the rest is in the basement (I use a PowerBook provided by my work), but we are still saddled with the debt hole we created for ourselves. We pay down several hundred dollars toward our debt every month, paying the high interest ones first, and the minimum on others. We expect to be at least consumer (not mortgage) debt-free by the new millenium. A few of us, including another person on this list, are in a YMOYL/Simplicity circle. We meet monthly and are now going through the steps in the YMOYL for Christians workbook.

Speaking of Christianity, Christie and I are both practicing Catholics though we are also very interested in earth-based religions, especially Wicca and we do celebrate solstices and other holidays when we can.

We're slowly making changes to our lifestyle to reduce our expenses and increase our enjoyment. A lot of them are little things like keeping the house cooler during the winter, just getting the paper on Sunday, buying just staples and not packaged food, having our own garden, and so forth. We did go to "cheap cable" but had to get "expensive cable" to watch the last season of Babylon 5. :)

Speaking of health problems, we both want children but we (mostly me) suffer from infertility and I haven't figured out how to solve this frugally yet. We tried a fairly complex procedure (ICSI/ZIFT) and were unsuccessful. We have a few frozen zygotes to try but the chances are quite low. We hope to increase our chance per dollar by trying a series of donor sperm attempts. We're also considering adoption though Christie would like to be pregnant and has known adopted kids who later search for their "real" parents and she feels that this would devastate her. We hope that we can have at least one pregnancy of our own and then adopt other children. Being an only child, Christie would like 2 or more children in the family.

Our primary goals right now are finding work we love or can at least tolerate and paying off our debts to give us more freedom. I would love to see a community that functions in a "positive future" manner along the lines of Ecotopia, and would enjoy participating in such a community for a few months to see how it felt.

There. I've really spilled all of my guts. Michael Niemi is probably wondering about this weirdo in his simplicity circle. :)

Mike N--- in Ann Arbor Michigan.

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From ???@??? Thu Mar 12 09:40:47 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Wed, 11 Mar 19998 12:38:49 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980312093643.007226a4@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:36:43 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Judy P---
Subject: Who am I?!

Judy P---

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From ???@??? Thu Mar 12 11:31:12 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Wed, 11 Mar 19998 14:29:59 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980312112922.0068856c@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 11:29:22 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Jill Dakota
Subject: about us

We live on Carsten's income and began looking into YMOYL around Christmas time. We would like to move toward living in a smaller community and work independently and volunteer, for ourselves. I have always loved the challenge of bargaining and second hand buying, so most of our belongings are "recycled." I am beginning to learn about living off the grid, and this summer will have an absolutely brilliant garden.

I am a textile artist, and am starting a business selling vintage fabrics to quilters/crafters who like to create retro style quilts and costuming. I am a homebirther (and would have appreciated Vicki's Doula services at the time!) and next year will be homeschooling my daughter. I practice my own hybrid of the earth religions, celebrate the seasonal holidays and create our own transformative rituals. for which I have a website!

I have found this to be exceptionally profound in becoming more connected to nature and its' cycles. Many in my family are healers and teachers, and right now my sister and I are brainstorming about creating a private elementary school.

I want to go hot air ballooning, learn to build a house and speak Zulu...and much, much more.

Regards, Jill

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From ???@??? Thu Mar 12 17:10:07 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Wed, 11 Mar 19998 20:08:44 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980312170348.00709ebc@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 17:03:48 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Stephen <.-.-.@fox.nstn.ca> 
Subject: Re:Bartering

Stephen

The Barter Board
Reduce,Reuse,Recycle,Repair,Re-Design
ICQ#9368473
.-.-.@fox.nstn.ca

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From ???@??? Thu Mar 12 17:43:50 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Wed, 11 Mar 19998 20:42:46 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980312174215.00728c78@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 17:42:15 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Richard Th--- <.-.-.@tk.chugai-pharm.co.jp> 
Subject: Who I am

I'm a bit hesitant about writing this, but here goes. I'm 33, from Yorkshire, England, living in Tokyo with my wife Noriko, who's from Osaka, and our son Hidetaro, who's almost two.

I've worked in a pharmaceutical company in Tokyo for three years, shuffling papers about. It's pretty boring, except for translating, which makes about half the job, and which I quite enjoy, but it's a Japanese company, so it's very relaxed, and I find I only have to work about half the time (madogiwazoku). The rest of the time I do translations for campaign groups (Okinawan anti-base movement, Global Village, etc) and play on the internet.
I expect I'll get sacked eventually, but I'm not into selling my soul to the company anyroad. A nice thing about living in Japan, as an English speaker, is that it's always easy enough to find another job - English teaching or translating would pay a bit less than now, but we'd have no problem getting by, and it'd be an excuse to try living somewhere other than Tokyo.

I guess I've always been into VS, even as a child. My parents were 60s hippy-ish types (they're 53), but were quite well-off, and with respect to materialism I always preferred the attitudes of my churchgoing, working class, wartime generation grandparents. I suppose the thing on which I've most tended to waste money is drink - I've been borderline alcoholic at times. I've never been in debt, though, despite having done some pretty low-paid jobs - Christmas tree cutter, bingo caller, supermarket shelf-packer, bakery worker, dog food factory worker, etc., etc.

I did a postdoc here before this job. We were both working, and we saved up enough in a year to be able to buy a decent house cash back in England, but it looks like we'll be staying in Japan now. Noriko doesn't work now, but we still save a third or more of my salary, which isn't bad, as it isn't especially high.
Having a flat in a public housing project helps.

I'm really more interested in "lifestyle politics" than VS per se. We could probably afford to retire in our 40s back in England, but I don't see that as a particularly admirable goal - I'd rather us find something worthwhile to do, ie. something that isn't entangled in the tentacles of the corporate Satan.
We're kind of toying with starting a wholefood shop or something, near Osaka, but I don't know whether we'll get it together. My PhD is in biotechnology, but I've never done anything I hated as much as research (including the dog food factory!) - I started it thinking it was about environmental amelioration, and ended up doing loads of DNA stuff which'd have been evil had I made any progress. The company likes having employees with "Dr." before their names, though! Any career suggestions gratefully received.

I like writing, and I've published a few articles about Japan, the Japanese environment, Shinto, and so on, on the internet and in paper publications.
I've prepared a long list of links to Japanese environmental sites, just ask if you'd like a copy. Other things I like doing include playing with Hidetaro, walking in the park, walking in the mountains (it's quite a train ride from the middle of Tokyo), and cycling round looking at shrines and other places in Tokyo with historical/mythic/romantic significance.

I enjoyed studying Japanese, and last November I passed the government's top level exam for foreigners. In the past I've also picked at learning French and Spanish, but I'd really like to learn a "pointless" obscure language, maybe Welsh or an American Indian language.

All the best anyway.

Richard

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From ???@??? Fri Mar 13 05:50:30 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Thu, 12 Mar 19998 08:47:07 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980313054409.0070aeac@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 05:44:09 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Jan A---
Subject: Who am I?

Thank you for your response to this ?? It has been very interesting reading your bios and getting to know you a bit better. I wasn't going to post again but felt I, too, should reply to the question. Well. .. My name is Jan A---. I am 44 and live with my husband and four daughters in Clearview WA. I married my husband, Jim, about three years ago. I am a Licensed Massage Practitioner, owner of my own massage business. I absolutely love my family and my work. I work with a broad cross-section of the population and volunteer massage for hospice patients through a local hospital. I particularly enjoy working with the older population and have learned much from their wisdom. My oldest patient was 101! I felt quite blessed to comfort her through massage in her last days.

I have always practiced simplicity. At times it was not voluntary, but always simple! Bringing up children with no income at times, caused me to become very thrifty, and creative as far as meeting our basic food and clothing needs, not to mention the "wants". Now I am fortunate to live in the home my husband designed and built himself (doing all the labor), paid as he built, therefore having no mortgage. We live on 5 acres, some wooded, some meadows and natural springs and a stream running through the property. We have a beautiful view of the Cascade Mountains. I have never been a big collector of "stuff". My husband built the house with minimal storage and closets in mind to coincide with his beliefs of simplicity. Thank goodness I didn't have too much stuff!!

As far as being aware of my impact on the environment, I think originally it was a matter of survival, but now my awareness has increased to the point I often feel sad how much the choices I make and others make impact the earth. I now try to instill in my children an awareness of how what they do, buy, etc. does have an effect. We do not watch T.V. but do have one and usually rent a video on the weekend. With the better weather approaching we plan to go camping, hiking, and enjoy more outdoor activities. Playing games (cards, board games, etc.), sitting around our hearth fire and talking are our main family activities.

I would much prefer to correspond occasionally through personal letters. If anyone would be interested in this, please let us know and Jim will e-mail you our address.

-Jan A---

"Why should we tolerate a diet of weak poisons, a home in insipid surroundings, a circle of acquaintances who are not quite our enemies, the noise of motors with just enough relief to prevent insanity? Who would want to live in a world which is just not quite fatal?"
-Paul Shepard

-- We dance around in a ring and suppose
But the Secret sits in the middle and knows _________________________________________________________________________

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From ???@??? Fri Mar 13 05:53:37 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Thu, 12 Mar 19998 08:52:58 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980313055210.00688580@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 05:52:10 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: David Appell <.-.-.@nh.ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: Who I am

I've been in and out of the corporate world for years, and have never really found a home in either place. After earning a Ph.D. in Physics I worked as an engineer at Bell Labs, then as a project manager at AT&T -- real suit, 50 voice mails a day kind of job. I burned out after a year and a bad viral infection. I joined a small software startup as a partner and built a voice mail system for a hospital, but did not find I was an entrepreneur either -- I wan't prepared to live and die for the company, it didn't keep me awake at night like the other partners. I found another corporate job, this time at MCI, and lasted 9 months until the third consecutive Friday night I found myself in an airport waiting for my luggage at 10:30 pm. I quit and went back to graduate school to study creative writing for a few semesters. Two years ago I hiked 1500 miles of the Appalachian Trail over five months, a wonderous, strenuous, eye-opening, body-straining experience that, though I did not reach the Trail's end, reinforced my belief that life can be something besides routine, that there are people interested in discussions beyond real estate and airports. (As Steve Earle says, all that real estate doesn't seem all that real to me.) People interested in community. I've never experienced commmunity like on the Trail, with its common goal and struggle, common needs and time simply to get to know one another.

I've been attracted to the idea of simplicity since I read WALDEN sometime around the age of 16 -- a beautiful edition I still have, given to me by my aunt, now half covered with sentences and paragraphs I've underlined. From hiking I know I don't need much to live on. In another month I'll have my last credit card paid off and, though I need health care for some injuries that won't go away, I need to reconnect with the things I felt on the Trail and elsewhere, and I need to find a life that makes sense for me, that is life-giving and not life-draining. Does any American life make sense anymore? For me I think this means living in a sane place, a small, quiet place, with time to think and reflect. In my current life so many things happen in a day and I do not have sufficient time to process them, to absorb them. I mostly react. I'd like to be writing something I believe in, to remember why I turned to writing in the first place -- essays, fiction, journalism with a purpose. Rachel Carson wrote SILENT SPRING because she received a letter from someone who was wondering why the birds near her house were dying.
I'd like to listen and take it from there.

David .-.-.@nh.ultranet.com
http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~appell

Wireless in the Wilderness:
http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~appell/antennas

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From ???@??? Fri Mar 13 05:53:41 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Thu, 12 Mar 19998 08:53:04 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980313055200.00688ea0@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 05:52:00 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Priscilla R---
Subject: Re: Who I Am

I just got home from being away for a week, and it was great to see this thread so that I know more about you.

I'm a 49 year old minister, currently serving as a two year interim minister in Pittsburgh. I don't know what I will be doing when this ministry is finished (I'm helping a congregation heal from some significant conflict so that they can be better positioned for their next settled minister).

I have been intellectually supportive of simplicity since the mid seventies when I came across the works of Wendell Berry and the Nearings. In the late seventies I was an energy planner for a city in the LA area as they were working with energy conservation measures. I really loved the concept of sustainable communities and kept an intellectual interest in all of this. Meanwhile, I married and gave birth to my only son. My husband was not at all interested in these things. We divorced after we moved to Texas. I got into social work and then ministry, raising my son by myself. I never connected my intellectual interests in these areas with the rest of my life -- kind of like "Life happens while you're making other plans".

I was really clueless about finances, though as a single parent in the helping professions, I never had much money. Then I put myself through seminary largely on student loans. When I got out, my debt was staggering and my salary staggeringly low. So I have been struggling to pay them off and have a ways to go. All of this caused me to awaken to the reality of my life: I was spending without a lot of accountability, though certainly not extravagantly.
My intellectual values said one thing and my actual life said something else about me. And I was seriously questioning where we as a society are headed -- along with the institutions of society that include churches. All of this began to come together a couple of years ago.

Now, the simplicity path is a major spiritual path for me as well as a way to financial integrity. My belief in the interconnection of all matter is central to my understanding of theology, of community and relationship, and to my way of being in this world. I may not ever get to FI through investments, but I hope to be free of debt in the next 2 to 3 years (which will be a major feat), to live in congruence with my values and with the earth, and to teach simplicity wherever I can. The church I serve is in an affluent suburb of Pittsburgh -- these people are really hungry for ways of simplifying their lives, even if it is just giving up the new Volvo for an older used car or freeing up a few hours of time for their families. I will support them wherever they are. And I am continuing to discern where my next step may lead me. Whatever that way is, it will be more in sync with my two-decade-old dream to live a more sustainable lifestyle. I am more empowered to take those steps now and as I face my future.

And being part of this list is helping me tremendously. Thanks for being there.

Priscilla R---

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From ???@??? Fri Mar 13 09:45:35 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Thu, 12 Mar 19998 12:41:06 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980313082725.007129a0@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 08:27:25 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Mike W---
Subject: Re: freedom, independence (was Who Am I ?)

Robyn, I like the way you qualified the term "financial independence." We are never truly free and independent. Thankfully, there is always something constraining our actions. Dostoevsky put it well when he said he was truly free only in his prison cell (either "Notes from the Underground" or "The House of the Dead")

I'm enjoying the introductions and the soap thread. It's good to hear personal and practical experiences. Robyn's "independence from paid employment" reminded me of my little sister Lisa who for many years was homeless and free of normal constraints. She loved horses and traveled from one racetrack or carnival to another. For weeks at a time she lived on the street with no money or support, a difficult and dangerous existence. I spent many nights worrying over where she was, whether she was dead or alive, what I could/should do to help. One day at work I had a strong premonition Lisa would visit me, when I got home she and her latest carney friend were waiting on the front porch. She was between racetracks and needed to shower and wash clothes. We had dinner, talked and laughed. The next morning she was on her way again, hitchhiking to the next racetrack opening. For weeks I was left with the unsettling feeling that Lisa was happier with life than I was. Without knowing it, she taught me an important lesson. Although I wouldn't adopt her lifestyle (I hate that term), I could find happiness and self-respect living outside the socially accepted boundaries. More and more often I caught myself asking the question: what's the worst thing that could happen? Lisa gave me the courage to make the break.

Mike W---

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From ???@??? Fri Mar 13 09:45:40 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Thu, 12 Mar 19998 12:43:01 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980313094219.007152e8@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:42:19 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Robyn A---
Subject: RE: Who I am

>  My PhD's in biotechnology, but I've never done anything I hated
 as much as research (including the dog food factory!)
> - I started it thinking it was about environmental amelioration,
 and ended up doing loads of DNA stuff which'd have been evil had I
 made any progress.  The company likes having employees with "Dr."
before their names, though! Any career suggestions gratefully received
> 
> I like writing, and I've published a few articles about Japan, the
 Japanese environment, Shinto, and so on, on the internet and in paper
 publications. 
>- [snip]
> I enjoyed studying Japanese, and last November I passed the
> government's top level exam for foreigners.  In the past I've also
 picked at learning French and Spanish, but I'd really like to learn
 a "pointless" obscure language, maybe Welsh or an
 American Indian language. 
> 

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From ???@??? Sat Mar 14 06:43:56 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Fri, 13 Mar 19998 09:40:14 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980314063803.006894a4@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 06:38:03 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Irene M--- <.-.-.@faa.dot.gov> 
Subject: My bio

I bought a house last fall, and am working on starting my own business. I am going to grow herbs and specialty veggies (all organic) for markets and restaurants. I am starting very small, with one client (who I actually supplied last year). I want to get out of the computer business, and work at what I want to do. I expect to make less than I do now, but I also expect to work less, and enjoy more.

I live in South Jersey, with my boyfriend, a cat, and a puppy. I enjoy all the posts on this list, even though I don't often post. I have just about eliminated all my debt (except for the mortgage - which I am prepaying), and I try to be conscious of all my spending. After I bought the house, I didn't buy a lot of stuff to fill it up. I had enough. Everyone keeps asking when I'll get a new bedroom set, new curtains (most windows don't even have them - I am in the country with no neighbors that can see in), etc. I see no need.

Irene

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From ???@??? Sat Mar 14 20:19:24 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Fri, 13 Mar 19998 19:52:24 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980314165148.0068856c@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 16:51:48 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: CK V---/B B---
Subject: Who we are...

I'm Bruce and my partner/wife is Cheryl. We live on 50 acres within the confines of a state forest in Minnesota, very near the headwaters of the Mississippi River. We built our house ourselves from native materials, use electricity from the sun via photovoltaic panels. We have minimal needs, but consider ourselves quite spoiled. A small stream bisects our land diagonally, and Cheryl has a Holistic health studio (built from strawbales, also by us) along the banks of the stream...close enough that the sound of the water is therapeutic.

We've both spent time in other places in the world...examples ranging from my two years as an advisor to the Army of the Republic of VietNam in the late 60's to packing UNICEF medicines into the mountains of Nicaragua near the Honduran border in the 80's...Cheryl spent time in Honduras on nursing missions also in the 80's.

We live simply and are trying to become more simple-minded.

We love our cat.

We're wedded to our land/gardens/orchards but (as anyone familiar with Northern Minnesota should know) we have ample time during winter months to spend time elsewhere and not miss much.

We are watching a video-tape tonight_The Matchmaker_ with Janeane Garofalo

It's still winter.

B

  Cheryl V--- and Bruce B---
              46N56' 95W20
   Visit the Natural Building Gallery
   http://www.zianet.com/blackrange
map: http://tinyurl.com/67brwv
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From ???@??? Sat Mar 14 20:19:27 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Fri, 13 Mar 19998 19:52:30 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980314165141.0070d294@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 16:51:41 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Sallee E---
Subject: New question for all/RE: Who I Am

I'm a 41 year old accountant/educator working in the nonprofit world and teaching as an adjunct instructor at a local business college. I've been intellectually interested in living a sustainable lifestyle, also since the seventies. I am divorced and raised my daughter without benefit of child support (he didn't stay still very long). Education seemed to be the only path out of the financial straits I was in, so I took out substantial loans (all of which are now coming due) to earn three and a half degrees (never finished the doctorate). I was raised in a family which practiced frugality (hated it as a teen!), vegetarianism, social democracy. Somewhere shortly before I finished my bachelor's degree I realized that I couldn't reconcile a degree in accounting (working for the "bottom line" corporate mentality) with my socialist leanings. I didn't derail, but finished the degree and went on to earn education credentials, thinking at least I could put the accounting knowledge and skills to good use teaching others something that would improve their employability. It was a compromise. I try not to think too often that I'm still perpetuating the corporate culture, even tho' I know I am. Nonprofits seemed to make the most sense for my own career objective and I went to work for an arts organization almost a year ago. Because of my location (southwestern Virginia) I piece together an existence in part-time employment, as there are limited full-time opportunities here (our kids leave for the big cities! Mine's grown and living in Atlanta). But I love the quality of life here, and I have an extensive support network here.

What is important to me about VS and simplicity is the way it creates interconnections among all the threads of my varied life. It helps me to be grounded in my heritage and to better mesh my actions with my values. It has caused me to become much more introverted (which for me is akin to meditation), thru seeking out my responses to "the way I've always done things" - as in "does that mean it's the best way?" I've been commited to the practice of simplicity for about a year and a half - since emptying my mom's house of 40 yeeears of accumulattion after her death. At the same time, I moved from her house to my own small apartment and realized that she'd taught me well about keeping things that might "come in handy someday." I'm still working on decluttering - learning what THINGS are meaningful to me and why, and what I have no use for.

AND I'm still working on the steps to FI. While I don't always write every penny down, I do keep track of things pretty closely in my Quicken files. I've been surprised to find some of the money-wasters in my life, and not so surprised with others. With the school loans finally coming due, it'll be quite awhile before I'm debt free. But I'm finding I enjoy my own company, that I can do without TV (which I knew when I was in school!), that I love cooking from scratch and listening to classical music, and just brushing out my half-Persian cat. I'm learning to grow food in pots instead of the rather large garden I once had, and how to preserve without salt (high blood pressure) but with only a small refrigerator freezer. I already knew how to do the frugal stuff, and practiced much of it, tho' I'm always looking for new ideas. I've got some Xmas wrap from when I was little - we keep reusing it!

VS is spiritual for me in that it's helping me slow down, think things through, realize interconnections in my beliefs and values, find alternative ways of doing things. And it's introduced me to some wonderful friends - all of you.

Sallee
in Roanoke, Virginia

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From ???@??? Sat Mar 14 20:54:56 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Fri, 13 Mar 19998 23:53:56 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980314205309.006f2414@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 20:53:09 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Bev F---
Subject: Re: Who am I?

Bev F---

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From ???@??? Sat Mar 14 06:44:16 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Fri, 13 Mar 19998 09:40:35 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980314063754.0071860c@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 06:37:54 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: David MacClement
Subject: Re:  who I am

At 14:41 10/03/98 -0700, Cheryl D--- wrote:
> ...
>agreed even before we were married that we didn't want to work the rest
>of our lives.  So we always lived on a small portion ..
> ...
>We now have a small income, sufficient for our needs, from our investments.
>
>- - ... some health problems, so our main concern in life is
>resting, eating well, and trying to regain some of our health back.
> ...
>for right now, we are kicking back, taking it easy, and enjoying life!
>

· After I had raised all three of our children to the stage where they could take total responsibility for their own lives and it was no longer mine; (I'm leaving my wife out of this description: I've gone my own way and supported myself even while living with the family, so I'm giving my own slant on this; see details in: http://www.oocities.org/Athens/Delphi/3142/davdsviewhowliv.html ), I felt I was free at last to "become a ghost: seen and recognised, but having no effect" on those around me or on the earth:
my way of dealing with my depression.

· I wanted also to see what was the absolute minimum spending needed by a city-dweller for subsistence; economic theory ( and that's all it is, in the macroscopic arena; it's useful in a controlled, bounded micro area like a corporation, but it's far over-simplified in relation to a complex network like a society); as I say: economics and the market assume that all "players" have the 'zero option' available all the time: not_to_buy, or not_to_sell. So if it's to have any application to people outside of a corporation, they have to have a guarantee of being supplied the minimum necessities for life: food, shelter (at the higher latitudes), and some clothing. The answer isn't 42, it's US$900, while sharing living in a paid-for cheap-to-run house and the rates.

· The third thread in my life has been my awakening in 1972 to the increasing concern for the future of the world caused by the product (that's a mathematical term here!) of the number of people and their individual consumption. I realised while back-packing one of my sons twenty years ago when we were living in London Canada, (i) that there was an excess of people in the world, so for an increasing number of individuals there is at least one other person able to do what that one was doing (leaving practicalities out of it), so no ordinary person needs to feel they are indispensible, for the first time in the history or pre-history of the human race!; and (ii) that doing less was a good thing, since resource consumption is involved in most of the things that people do.

· (You can see why I was reluctant to put my oar in:
- - I've found it stops the conversation cold!)

· I've realised only a few months ago that I'm coming out of my depression, and in the last few weeks have found that my remaining son and daughter (who has just left to catch the bus to Auckland University) are indeed happy to live under the same roof with me - they buy their own stuff beyond sharing the 9 items I've eaten for the last 5+ years (mainly bread and cabbage). Bera left earlier to catch the 6:30 a.m. bus to her job lecturing in the Physics Dept. of the university, but said as she left that she was going to take my advice and reduce her teaching load in the 2nd semester - she was at 130% of full-time last year!
At nearly 60, it's too risky for someone with her physiological makeup (type-A).

· Sorry for that blast.

David.

** http://www.oocities.org/Athens/Delphi/3142/
David MacClement
-- http://www.oocities.org/RainForest/6783/

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From ???@??? Sat Mar 14 06:43:28 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Fri, 13 Mar 19998 09:39:44 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980314063806.007138a8@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 06:38:06 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Mark M---
Subject: Re: who I am

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From ???@??? Sat Mar 14 06:43:41 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Fri, 13 Mar 19998 09:39:14 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980314063812.00718998@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 06:38:12 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Richard Th--- <.-.-.@tk.chugai-pharm.co.jp> 
Subject: queries

1. Why don't you go on the dole? (I don't know whether there is any in NZ, though).

2. Why don't you do obtain more of your food without buying it. I'm not sure that gardening always saves much money, but what about food gathering - wild berries, mushrooms, roots, mushrooms, even leaves. People laughed at me when I was a student for picking the leaves of lime (Tilia) trees in the park, and eating soups made from nettles, dandelions and rosebay willowherb. There's also fishing and catching birds (I can't remember if you're vegetarian), such as pigeons. There's also seaweed, if you live near the coast.

3. Why don't you shoplift from supermarkets? A man with your simple tastes is surely not all that scared of prison - you could see it as a chance for some free further education! Shoplifting seems to me to be an excellent way of redistributing wealth, reducing corporate profits, and giving a competitive edge to those shops which you don't steal from (which, if you're decent, means those owned by ordinary families).

Maybe I'm not being entirely serious, but I look forward to your reply.

All the best,

Richard, Tokyo

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From ???@??? Wed Mar 18 16:02:52 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Tue, 17 Mar 19998 18:59:13 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980318150313.00741de4@mail.oocities.com>
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:03:13 +1200
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: suzan b--- <.-.-.@bc.sympatico.ca> 
Subject: Who I am

My direction now is to continue exploring the outdoors and sharing my experiences with those from around the world by teaching environmental education. I am working as an ecology interpreter for the Ministry of Forestry. I take K-12 students and their teachers out into the woods and explore the wonders of nature.

As far as my eating habits, I have definately cut down on my meat intake and am almost to the point of vegetarian. After spending 6 months in India, 5 years ago, I learned to appreciate adding spices and sauces to my veggies.

I don't watch TV, enjoy the odd video (usually ones that I can learn from), I drive a 10 year Vox Fox, and always shop at the Nifty Thrifty - if I shop at all!

My piece of land on Savory Island, in the North Gulf Islands, is beckoning me to built the dream log cabin. I have great plans to incorporate beach wood and maple branches from the 100' tree on the lot. I hope to spend at least 6months of the year here, basking in the sun with my toes buried into the pink sand.

Well, I think I have exhausted the thoughts right now. Its difficult to talk to you without seeing the faces, but its great to have this machine taking me all over the world - Hi there in Japan!!

All the best to you all - Suzan

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From ???@??? Wed Mar 18 16:02:56 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Tue, 17 Mar 19998 18:59:27 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980318150307.0074b41c@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:03:07 +1200
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Kerstin
Subject: Who I am

I work for a tour company, where I arrange tours for Europeans coming to the US and Canada. The work offers a nice variety of challenges, but it also makes it hard to have a balanced life and commit to ongoing activities in the community. (I won't go into a critical analysis of the travel industry itself here - this is one of the not quite ironed-out areas in my present life). In a 'previous life' I was on a more academic path (anthropology), and part of me still fantasizes about becoming more of a naturalist-type.
I love the woods, and came here initially to see whether and how long I could actually live in the forest or whether I was just being romantic from reading too much Thoreau, the Nearings, and Anne LaBastille. I did live in the Green Mtns for 3-4 months (doing outdoor ed. and trail maintenance for the Green Mtn Club) and was quite happy there, but haven't quite figured out how to make that a more ongoing part of my life.

Besides the woods, I appreciate the vibrant cultural life here and the small scale of things. There aren't all that many people in this state; I hardly ever feel crowded and know where to find solitude when I need it - but there is also a sense of community and many community-oriented organizations.
There, my ode to Vermont :-)

I read YMOYL last year and have found some good food for thought in it, esp. for systematic thinking about work, money, housing, and life in general. Some of it seemed self-evident, but then I've always been pretty frugal - sometimes by choice, sometimes not. I'm also fairly immune to the lure of expensive clothes, cars, stereos etc., and I grew up in Europe (Germany), where it is generally easier to get around by bicycle & public transportation, i.e. without a car.
For the first time in a long time, I have a TV - it was left in the apartment I recently moved into! Most of the time, I forget that it is there... though I do wish I could get Northern Exposure (Tom Gray's offer of loaning his tapes is very tempting - I may still take you up on it if can talk some friends into hosting a N. Exp session!).
- While writing this, I deviated from myyy usual morning rritual and turned the radio (NPR) off. It wasn't as disorienting as I feared and I appreciate the quiet.
Enough for now Best wishes to all,
Kerstin

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From ???@??? Thu Mar 19 08:19:10 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Wed, 18 Mar 19998 11:17:46 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980319081731.00722cac@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 08:17:31 +1200
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Linda F---
Subject: Bio

My name is Linda F---, and I live in New York City. I've also lived in Whitewater, Wisconsin and Emporia, Kansas, I've lived in NYC for 10 years and enjoyed it very much.

I stumbled upon this list while cruising the Internet for resources about thrift shopping, couponing, and saving money in general. From the list, I learned about Your Money or Your life, and I'm making myself available to begin a YMOYL study group in the NYC area. I've had two takers so far.

I'm pretty new to the list. I would love to hear some VS strategies for city living. It strikes me that there are both positives and negatives to be considered. New York has public transportation, which uses less gas; apartment living, which uses less fuel for heat; good public resources like libraries & museums; lots of opportunities to buy cheap goods and services (politely known in some circles as dumpster-diving). On the other hand, the governmental structure is byzantine and demagogic; the streets are dusty and filled with cars and the idea of riding a bike on the street here is more than I can handle; there's dog crap all over the sidewalks; and buying retail is expensive, and so is rent.

My avocations are music and the arts; my day job, admin assistant for a philanthropic organization. My foremost tasks are helping to organize the professional lives of two program staff, and drafting reasoned and principled letters of reply to grant applicants in the field of media and journalism. This is not an occupation which fills my soul with peace and joy, but the bennies are great and they put me through a master's degree program at NYU.

More on my avocations: My pricipal instrument is the flute. I'm not a professional, but an ama-teur, someone who plays for love, not money. I've never played in the subway, and playing in the park makes me self-conscious. I like to perform for audiences, but not casually, and at times I record for friends who have projects of the folk and musical theatre kind. I lurk on rec.music.compose and alt.flute for tips and topics, and I have people I play chamber music with from time to time.

This list is great so far, and i look forward to more participation. Did anyone see the goat - packing bit in the most recent Mother Earth News? What a gas! Wish I had room for a goat in my one-bedroom : )

Linda

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From ???@??? Sun Mar 22 07:36:07 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Sat, 21 Mar 19998 11:32:59 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980322073259.00734a90@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 07:32:59 +1200
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Pamela C--- <.-.-.@btinternet.com> 
Subject: Who I Am - Who Am I?

I lived in the Mid-West (St. Louis) until the mid-seventies, when I got disheartened by the way I saw the contradictions of American life going and emigrated to the UK, married an Englishman, adopted two boys and settled down to a life of anonymity ... until a few years ago, when I suddenly felt a real need to get back in touch with the ideals and energy I remember growing up with. So I started reading again about organic gardening, the Findhorn Foundation, and self-sufficiency, and did some research into traditional lifestyles at the local record office.and eventually found my way to the PF group. I'm in the middle of doing alot of thinking about downshifting (or retiring to live a more simple life), and welcome hearing about other people's experiences. And, over the past year we've dropped meat from out diet, as well as most processed or precooked foods, and we feel great for it

I'm interested in lots of different things - self-sufficiency, community, folk music, walking, hill climbing, cooking, gardening, playing the piano... the list is endless, and gets bigger every year, which is great, as it keeps me from getting bored. I really enjoy the different ideas that come up in the PF articles - and look forward to making more friends in future!

So that's us, Pamela, Stephen, Jonathon, and David, from the UK.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If not us, who? If not now, when?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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From ???@??? Sun Apr 19 19:03:26 1998
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 19:04:55 -0700
From: Joe C--- & or Kim W---
Message-ID: <353AAD45.886DD831@california.com>
Subject: biography
To: positive-futures@igc.org

I was born in 1971 (hot-pants were in fashion, A Clockwork Orange won a much debated Oscar for Best Picture, the microchip was introduced ...), in Phoenix, AZ in the United States of America. I was the only child to come out of a marriage that lasted 2 years. I lived off and on with both parents (court orders) until I was finally able to escape my abusive father and live full-time with my mother in CA.

I moved to California in 1980. I attended both private and public schools...I was (probably) a little too jaded, sophisticated, and precocious for my own good and was in and out of trouble for most of the early '80s. I was bored in school and would frequently cut class to read on my own. Some of my teachers noticed that I was exceptionally scholarly for a student who rarely attended class and would let me work at my own pace (usually a few chapters ahead of the other kids). In my freshman year of high school my AP English teacher recommended that I move into the GATE (Gifted and Talented Education) program. But I was still bored. I felt disenfranchised and lonely, I envied the other kids with normal families.

My mom had a rough time trying to raise two kids alone (she had since remarried and divorced before I came to live with her). We were poor, although we lived in an affluent area, and I felt like I was the only kid in the neighborhood who had to shop for clothes at the thrift store (it wasn't a political statement for me). I quickly developed a contempt for most of my peers...I couldn't relate to them...even students in my AP English classes...I was reading George Orwell and Jack Kerouac and the other girls were reading the Sweet Valley High series (blech).

I wrote poetry, belonged to the French club, attended AP classes, edited the school literary magazine, and used drugs whenever possible. I was clean and sober by the time I was 17.

I dropped out of regular high school, went into independent study, and began taking classes at the junior college. I attended San Francisco State University, but dropped out in my junior year because I ran out of money (what would I do with a degree in Post Colonial Literature anyway?).

Now, I'm 26, ecstatically married to the bravest man in the world, and work for a Technological PR firm in San Francisco. I watch a bit of tv (not much, but I'm sure more than most of the other people on this list), I'm an environmentalist, a photographer, and an all around disturber of the status quo. The poet seeks not acceptance, but controversy. I was attracted to this email group because of the name--Positive Futures--two things I hope to (continue to) have. I am not financially independent, in fact I'll consider myself lucky to receive Social Security when and if I retire. I'm pretty bitter about the state of the world and try not to blame the previous generations (too much).

Peace
Jokm (Kim)

"Just remember you're a unique individual, just like everyone else."

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_X_

Who We Are: McKenna H---

Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 09:23:41 -1000
From: Mckenna H--- <.-.-.@aloha.net>

I finally have a moment to spare and the desire to share my background with this group. I hope I can stay concise...

I am a 43-year-old hippie. Unshaven (for all my life). Unadorned by the cosmetic industry for most of my life. Succumbed in the 80's while in high-end art sales in San Francisco (---hairy legs and lipstick??---not a pretty picture!) These are part of my feminist roots. Partnered for 16 years with my husband (of 11 years). Childless by choice. A part of my (our) environmentalist roots.

Childhood spent in travel. Army brat. 11 schools before graduation. An only child, but not a lonely child -- well occasionally. But generally I was too fascinated with the many cultures, unique histories, wonderful geologies, and endless varieties of people and playmates and penpals.

I don't want to leave an impression that my childhood was blissful...quite opposite. I was an abused child. Abused by a raging mother. Verbally abusive when sober, physically abusive when drunk -- which was daily.

AND I am grateful for each moment of my life.

I am most grateful for a moment that occurred 4 yrs. ago. I left a nearly 6 figure income to become an environmental artist. I make wearable art from found-objects. I work out of my home. My mission statement:

I want to create objects of art with a minimum of impact on Our Planet and to this end I will never use electricity or heat or corrosive chemicals and I will use as few items as possible from manufactured sources.

I call myself an abstract integrationist. I create by abstracting moments from an old copper gutter, or radiator core, or beach tumbled plastic. I hunt and gather at construction sites, dumpsters in industrial districts, and tear apart old cars and appliances. I avoid using recognizable objects. And with minimal intrusion by me, I make it wearable as a pendant or earrings. As I started this strange journey, and as I researched all the 'cool power tools' , I was overwhelmed by a desire to try and make stuff without burning fossil fuels. I scratched my head for about two weeks and then I just started one day to make things. It is an on-going learning process. Every day I am challenged by a chunk of metal or plastic or glass. Everyday I learn a new way to overcome the challenge of not using power.

But the real challenge is 'marketing' more than an object. I require that my message is proselytized to and then, hopefully, by the wearer. I now have seven accounts. I target local, women-owned, single-location businesses and non-profits. With every sale of my work I require my accounts to use my packaging, which I get from a local distributor's cast-off wrapping papers. (Can you believe that Nabisco ships product with heavy-weight brown craft paper around 4 to 6 units that are in a box which are all in _another_ box....?!) Every package contains my business card which contains my mission statement and a few other thoughts:

I am humbled and grateful for the experience gained by my commitment to this mission. I'm overjoyed when someone sees the art in simple beach-tumbled glass. With a new vision, a piece of glass can replace the desire for crystals or other gems that are wrenched by heavy machinery from inside the earth's fragile surface. Copper scraps corroded and colored by the elements are recognized as paintings by nature.

Ultimately, my true reward is meeting the challenge of trying to be a part of the healing of this besieged, over-populated, and over-consumed planet.

My advocacy touches everything. From the gathering to the cleaning, from sorting to assembling, I find a zen-like peacefulness, a serenity that I try to express in my designs. My hope is that this serenity can be felt by all who see and wear this jewelry...and that their vision and ideals are shifted by the calming currents underlying everything nature has to share.

One World, One Nation
(my signature)

To complete this bio, I must add that I have the good fortune of setting up a display of my work for sale every week in an upscale shopping area (where I also have a wholesale account) where all walks of life pass by and I can preach to my heart's content. I am rewarded in many ways. For example, one of my clients was staying at the Four Seasons and now has made my jewelry her only adornment. She has sold off her gold and diamonds, rubies, and pearls. She tells my story nearly every day.

Tears well up in thinking about my life. About my impact. I have many such stories of converting strangers and influencing distant causes.

I also have so very far to go. My impatience and agressiveness are my main enemies as witnessed by this list in my recent rage about 'doing activism'. I brew strong solutions. I am not a Dale Carnegie grad. The list is helping me. I am being a better lurker on all levels. I am paying closer attention. I am again grateful.

So as I continue to learn and balance my emotions, I look forward to being a better contributor to this list and to all with whom I interact. Perhaps someday to have my own modest proposal.

in gratitude...
Mckenna H---
dba Currents
Kihei, Maui, Hawaii
e-mail: .-.-.@aloha.net

PS...4 yrs ago there was some confusion about what I was doing. At least half of my encounters were basic teaching sessions of the principals of RRR (Reduce, etc.) GOOD NEWS! Very little confusion about my message anymore. Demand for my product always outstrips my supply. The general public really wants to support the right things! And many more are actually doing the right things! HIP-HIP HOORAY!

[McKenna adds: "Could you add an additional statement somehow . . . a heading perhaps?
Reduce Reuse Recycle and RETHINK. [grin]
It's my biggest message. Thanks!"]

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Who We Are: Gayle Z---

Date: Sat, 9 Nov 96 18:27:22 -0600
From: "Gayle R. Z---" <.-.-.@tc.umn.edu>

Hi From Minneapolis,

I'm new to this list in the last two weeks. I read the Modest Proposal thread this morning and found it helpful and inspiring and a nice way to know what you folks have been up to. I work as a research, planning, and writing consultant to non-profit organizations and have thereby found a way to work less than 40 hours a week and have lots more time for a variety of other passions in my life (reading, being with friends, peer counseling, etc.). I just finished up a consulting contract with my former employer, and I issued a huge sigh of relief that I no longer work there with the long hours and panicked deadlines.

I found this list by subscribing to "Yes! a Journal of Positive Futures," which was recommended to me by _David_Korten_ when I met him in April at the Tikkun-sponsored Summit on Ethics and Meaning. One of the reasons I attended that event was to hear David in person; it was well worth it. While I have largely been involved in activism on "domestic" issues of hunger, poverty, and education, I have found my interest in a wider global perspective growing as I confront the immense power of corporations. I am more and more interested in thinking about what it means to "live simply so that others may simply live." I find myself noticing the urge to buy a book or CD when I'm feeling down and practicing the repeated statement, "I don't really need that. What I really want is closeness, connection, and company." As someone in my mid-30's who's still renting, I also find myself pulled by the thought that I "should" be thinking of buying. But actually, I'm not very interested in home upkeep; if I did buy something, I'd like it to be something along a co-housing model. I've yet to do a whole lot of investigation of the existing co-housing efforts in the Twin Cities, but it's something I think I'll be moving toward.

My increased interest in VS has also come from reading Tim Miller's book, How to Want What You Have and participating in an e-mail list associated with it. He talks about the evolutionary drive toward MORE which we must act against if we want life and the planet to survive.

Gayle

Gayle R. Z---
.-.-.@gold.tc.umn.edu

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Who We Are: Walter P---

Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 11:01:02 -0800
From: The P--- - C--- Household

Greetings My name is Walter. And I'm a lurker. I live in Salem OR with my wife, daughter, cat and dog. I work as an environmental lawyer for the state. (Which sounds a lot more interesting and useful than it is.)

We try to live a light lifestyle. We do the basics, recycling, composting, shopping at thrift stores. We live in the city center so we can reduce driving. Our daughter walks to school, and we regularly ride our bikes to work.

We tried out community gardening this year. A friend of ours, who is trying horse farming, contracted with ten families to provide vegetables once a week. It was great! Never ate better. And learned a lot of new recipes. Our daughter who has become a vegetarian, has driven us farther and farther from the our habitual diet.

Early on, my wife and I, who is also a lawyer realized that it wasn't worth the money for us to both work full time. So for the last five or six years, I've worked half time, and spent the afternoons with our daughter.

Trying to waken from that slumber that is materialistic consumerism. More and more I notice that despite all the promises, buying/owning isn't really satisfying. A quick buzz maybe. So I'm trying to spend more time doing things, learning things. Play with the toys I already have. But staying mindful in the face of the barrage from mother culture, from television, from peers, is tough.

It's nice to hear from the folks on this list to help me remember that I'm not alone, and not totally crazy.

I'd be interested in hearing what people are reading these days. I recommend Ishmael by Daniel Quinn. He's got a new book out too, but I've not read it yet. Has anyone seen it?

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Who We Are: Callie J---

Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 06:13:50 -0500
From: Callie

Callie J---, female, aging baby boomer, now live in the Columbia Gorge, about an hour east of Portland OR. I live on an acre of dry land--pines and oaks, with a "low-flow" well, in a 2-story cabin (800 sq ft). I have a horse and two dogs, three cats and a rabbit.

I'm not sure I'm exactly "involved in the VS movement" but am trying to simplify my life in several ways. I moved from Seattle about 6 yrs ago, which was the biggest help in seeing that I hadn't been living my life the way I really wanted to.

I have always been terrifically active, prided myself on how busy I was, never home, always on the go, I worked 60-80 hrs a week in a professionally-challenging and high paying job, had season tickets to the ballet, three theater companies, knew every restaurant in town, saw every film. I remodeled my 1927 house from the inside out, adding lofts and a mother-in-law apt; had big parties several times a year, decorated massively for Christmas lots of friends, lots of clothes, new car etc.

I always had to work my way through school etc. At first it seemed like I could never spend all of my new income and I reveled in the new freedom to travel, buy pretty things etc. The house was a real satisfying accomplishment. (and I sold it for twice what I had in it so it was the only thing that wasn't feckless). But it didn't take long to realize I was spending my future. I didn't know until I left that I didn't need or even want any of it. That the hurry hurry of urban life was, in the end, pointless. It was exciting but it didn't leave me with anything. Memories, but no substance.

It hasn't been easy to resist the temptations to get too busy again, to spend too much money. But now I'm paying attention. To how I spend my time and money, the choices and their consequences. I had already starting examining my life before I read YMOYL, and immediately recognized the formula, a good basis for each decision. How much of your life/time do you want to spend on this or that. (Haven't been able to get into the FI part per se, although it's a good idea of course.) So I've pretty much stopped buying new clothes (even from the second-hand store--because I already have lots of clothes and don't Need any more). Cut back on magazine subscriptions, don't buy books (get them at the library).

Haven't had a TV for probably let's see, 15 yrs, don't read the papers, don't even listen to the radio--decided to pick where I get my information I guess. I've been doing a lot of reading. Gary Snyder, Jon Kabat-Zinn, Zen in general, mindfulness. Then the ecology/politics stuff, background on what's been going on. Trying to incorporate healthy living/eating/exercise/meditation into my life. Moving into being activist, but grappling with perhaps getting too busy once again.

I'm coming to believe no one person can make a difference, but every one person has to do something in order to make any difference. Therefore we each have to act as if our every action was important--because it actually is. It's the aggregate that has the effect, good or bad (I hope, I hope).

Multiple choices, multiple consequences. So I didn't have children, which made zero difference in the world population index; but my not having children added the one grain of sand along with anyone else who didn't for whatever reason. Can't think about how much it doesn't help and have to concentrate on whatever little thing I can do--and don't be so hard on myself when I continue to do something "bad".

And so I pay attention to what kind of container my yogurt comes in, write a letter to Safeway when they switch from #2 to #6, so what if it's not going to stop them. Next step is to see what Safeway does, who owns them, switch to a "good guy" corporation. (Telephone through Working Assets, make the calls they target each month.) Or better yet, buy from a local dairy, except we don't have one. So forget dairy for the moment. How about vegetables, grow my own--except I don't have the water or the physical ability. Well then, subscribe to the only CSA we have, except I can't eat a whole share and would have to drive my car to pick up the produce. Send contributions to preserve farmlands, contain urban sprawl. It's hard to know where to focus though, there's so much to worry about.

Biggest dilemma is probably my animals. If I were actually to reduce my footprint, I wouldn't have large dogs/multiple cats and a manure machine (contaminated groundwater?) that eat grain products and support monoculture agribusiness, big low mpg pickup truck etc. They add to my personal quality of life of course and so far I guess I think I'm reducing in enough other ways to "make up for it". Yeah, right. Well, how about how I'll have transportation when we run out of oil. Uh huh, until the first guy with a gun comes along. Can get pretty depressing.

Which is why I was attracted to Positive Futures--I hope to find some more small and possible things I can do. I'd love to find/develop a community, would welcome one that transcended superficial differences, that included people I don't agree with, except they always seem such bullies. But I need practice getting along rather than hiding out, and besides, that's who's in the same boat (Earth) here with me. I appreciate the contact with the outside world I get here in this group. Mostly intimidated by the well-written, so very expressive/impressive posts (I wish I was Betsy) (well, except for the teenagers...) and gee gosh aw shucks I thought I could lurk forever. But do have an urge to speak up once in a while, so I guess it's only fair you get some "credentials".

Callie

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Who We Are: Brian P---

Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 22:51:07 -0600 (CST)
From: Brian K P---

I'll try to keep my response under control and relevant to this group. My general bio that I post on the local board is about 11k.

I'm 32 but still get carded on the rare occation I go out. I live in Saint Paul, Minnesota, with my lady Coni and her two daughters. I'm their dad though I am the biological father of neither.

I have trouble dealing with much of mainstream society. Part of this is because I have Tourette's Syndrome so people who don't understand my condition have trouble dealing with me. :) The larger part is that I can't stand playing games. I believe in being open and honest with people and it seems in current society people don't know how to deal with that. I gave up on having an office job because I can't deal with the petty power trips and office politics. Now I work for myself doing home repairs and remodeling.

It was only a couple of years ago that I first encountered the term "voluntary simplicity". My response was to laugh out loud that there was a PC term for what I had been doing all my life. Money has never been of much importance to me.

One of the offshoots of my studying geodesic domes has been exposure to other inventions of Buckminster Fuller. One night Coni quipped about where I could build us a car. Fuller's dymaxion vehicle came to mind so I have started working on designs for my own utility vehicle. My aim is for a fuel- efficent, low-emission vehicle like a mini-van. I'm using an elliptical geodesic sphere for the body and fitting it out with low power engines. I just need to get around town and carry tools and supplies, I don't even care if it can't go on the freeway. I'm figuring it at a top speed of 40mph. Just something adaquate for my needs; no cause for 300hp etc. Due to low speed and body design I have christened the concept the 'geodesic dawdler'.

My goal in life is to build a self-sufficient homestead. We want a place where we can provide dirrectly for all of our own needs, shelter, food, clothing, and power. I've been working on designs for about five years now. I plan to build an earth-sheltered geodesic dome that will be heated by passive solar. The living area will be the lower floor and the entire upper floor will be a greenhouse for growing vegitables year round. Electrical power will be provided by wind and water with no hook ups to the public power grid. Recently with the help of Tom Gray from this list we established a mailing list for discussions of homesteads and building for self-sufficiency. ...

- Brian P---
- Just your stereotypical
- polysexual,
- bisexual
- solitary pagan
- from St. Paul, Minnesota

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Who We Are: Ben W---

Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:56:06 -0500
From: Ben W---

Hi, my name is Ben Wright. I'm a 29 yr. old male in the heart of Manhattan getting paid to program kid's games for Chilren's Television Workshop. I saw in an earlier thread that Arnie was surprised to see someone (I forget who it was) living in NYC and thinking about VS. I am another one although I don't know if I count since I moved here from Texas about a year ago. At that time, I saw Arnie's name quite often on the Ishmael list. ;)

I guess my life has been somewhat of a progression. While I used to program software for military projects, I now sort of work for kids. I'm still not totally thrilled with this since Sesame Street is now being marketed for consumers. On a personal level, I find more fault with a career in the computer industry its self rather than the specific area computers are being used.

Today is the day that I am turning in my application for graduate study in Environmental Anthropology. I want to study how cultural pressures brought on by population growth and technology objectify the environment as well ourselves. It certainly has been my experience in computers that over-specialization seems to lead to social isolation. No one knows how to relate to each other because they spent so much of the day thinking about very narrowly defined topics.

I began my segue into this and VS about the time a friend gave me a copy of "Ishmael" (1994) and the words that Daniel Quinn wrote struck upon something hidden in my mind. When I graduated from college, I went on a spending spree for about a year and a half. Towards the end of that time, reading Ishmael, luckily, coincided with realizing that all my bought things didn't correspond to any greater happiness on my part. I bought "The Story of B", the sequel to "Ishmael", Saturday before last in the morning. I basically didn't move until I completed my first reading on that Sunday. I won't give any opinions yet other than to say its no letdown from Ishmael. I'm beginning to re-read.

I still consider myself in the early, sometimes walking-blind, stages of my journey into VS and eventually community. I know my path will lead away from NYC in the not too distant future. There is some important diversity here but people treat each other by an insane set of rules if they don't know you (on the street and in the subways).

Ben W---

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From ???@??? Wed Mar 11 13:48:35 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Tue, 10 Mar 19998 16:46:45 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980311134447.00702f0c@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:44:47 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Mark M---

Subject: _saving_soap_; dangers of shampoo chemicals; article "available"

New subject: I have an e-mail article on the toxins in and mis-labeling on shampoos... about carcinogens (sp?) and formaldihide pre-cursers in shampoos, etc., in just about every shampoo you buy in the drug stores and super markets here (in the U.S.). Even the baby shampoos! Since I have four daughters I checked labels on every shampoo and rinse in the house, and ended up throwing them ALL out (after re-cycling the shampoo, rinse and hair-color bottles). Alternative is to buy in health food stores.

If anyone is interested, I can e-mail the article to individuals, as it makes fascinating reading -- what manufacturers get away with in selling what's 'good' for us -- and then the article can be sent on to family & friends.
- - - Mark (in N.Virginia)

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From ???@??? Wed Mar 11 13:48:24 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Tue, 10 Mar 19998 16:46:22 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980311134330.007121f0@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:43:30 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Mark M---

The following article (edited) on shampoo toxins and cancer causing agents appeared in the health journal, "Doctor's Prescription For Healthy Living," and was written by Dr. L. Stephen Coles, M.D., Ph.D.
The editorial board of this journal consists of six medical doctors: Cynthis Loes, Megan Shields, Carl Boggs, L. Stephen Coles, Roger Libby, Michael Loes, and Gary Wikholm.

- - ======

- - SUMMARY

        Almost every shampoo sold in drug or department stores
        contains undisclosed contaminants or carcinogen precursors.
        The safest brands today are in health food stores.

No matter how enticingly packaged or hyped with advertising, if your shampoo uses unsafe ingredients, the product is likely to be hazardous to your health, especially over the long run.

Unsafe ingredients in shampoos make people with sensitive skin, including babies and children, vulnerable to allergies and irritation. More ominously, many drug store brands contain carcinogens not disclosed on labels which present a cumulative or long-term cancer risk to consumers.

When you shampoo, your scalp is exposed to warm water and detergent, making the skin a permeable pathway for absorption of toxins. To compound the problem, the powerful detergents in most shampoos emulsify oil, removing this protective layer from the hair and scalp. This toxicity hazard is especially acute for babies and children whose immune systems are not fully mature.

There are safe and healthy (shampoo) alternatives, however... These shampoos combine herbs and nutrients with mild cleansers that leave your hair looking great without exposing you or your loved ones to carcinogens or carcinogen precursors.

HEALTH RISKS OF CONVENTIONAL SHAMPOOS

Some shampoo-related health problems are immediate such as allergies and irritation, while others are delayed. Let's look a little more closely at each of these types of health hazards. Armed with good information, we should be able to avoid the worst allergens and irritants, as well as carcinogens.

- Allergies and Irritation:

Conventional shampoos contain synthetic fragrances and a wide range of preservatives. Both have been shown to be the leading causes of cosmetic-related allergies and irritation today. Synthetic fragrances are often made from more than 600 separate chemicals, many classified as extremely hazardous, but not required to be listed individually on the label or provided separately to consumers who request such information. Fragrances are the number one cause of allergies and irritation in cosmetics and personal care products.

Natural fragrance or none at all is a safe and healthy choice if you find that your shampoo is bothering your eyes, skin or scalp. Another class of allergens and irritants in shampoos are those preservatives that contain, release, or break down into (dangerous) formaldehyde, including:

        ¥       Diazolidinyl urea
        ¥       Imidazolidinyl urea
        ¥       2-bromo-2-nitropropane-1,3-diol (Bronopol)
        ¥       Quaternium-15

        ¥       EDTA (ethylenediamine tetraacetic acid)
        ¥       D&C Green 5
        ¥       Selenium sulfide (used in anti-dandruff shampoos)

The preservative 2-bromo-2-nitropropane-1,3-diol can also cause nitrosamine formation. Vitamins A,C, or E will slow formation of nitrosamines to an extent, but it is better to seek products without carcinogen precursors at all.

Artificial colors are disclosed on product labels. Almost all have some evidence of carcinogenicity or are contaminated with cancer-causing impurities such as arsenic and lead. Eliminate these from your shampoo if you want a safe and natural product.

Some shampoos may be contaminated with 1,4-dioxane, which is carcinogenic. This contaminant is not disclosed on product labels. The best way to protect yourself from this carcinogen is to recognize those ingredients most likely to be contaminated with 1,4-dioxane. These include ingredients with PEG, polyethylene, polyethylene glycol, polyoxyethylene, "eth" (as in sodium laureth sulfate), or oxynol in their names. Both polysorbate 60 and polysorbate 80 may be contaminated with 1,4-dioxane.

- Safer Alternatives:
For people who are seeking truly safe and natural healing pathways, their choice of shampoo and other cosmetic products is extremely important. Virtually all of the best cosmetic brands, however, can be found only at health food stores. There are many healthy product lines.
(One such line is Aubrey Organics:
http://www.aubrey-organics.com/
Look for ...hair products created without any synthetic chemicals, no synthetic fragrance, formaldehyde donors, or nitrosamine precursors. Also look for no animal testing or animal products. Look for vegetarian soaps and proteins including coconut oil, corn oil, olive oil castile, wheat and soya protein. Look for use of deionized water, or preservatives such as antioxidant vitamins A, C, E and citrus seed extract, all of which also help fight premature skin aging. Look for natural fragrances such as geranium, lavender, orange blossom and jasmine oils.) Some product lines use wild-crafted or organically grown plants for their conditioning properties. (Look for) ...herbal extracts that contain propylene glycol, a potent allergen commonly used as a carrying agent in place of vegetable glycerine (which is more expensive). Look for product lines that are made fresh daily so they don't sit on the shelf (although they will last more than a year). Plus, look for lines that don't use distributors or warehouses. The better products are delivered directly to health food stores, which guarantees their freshness.

- Dr. L. Stephen Coles, M.D., Ph.D., is an
- expert in health and longevity. - - =========

Here's a example of products, including men's and baby shampoos, from one of the better healthy organic shampoo manufacturers, Aubrey Organics, mentioned in the above-name journal, and whose products are found in Fresh Fields & Whole Foods grocery stores. Aubrey Organics: 1-800-282-7394. (also has web site:
http://www.aubrey-organics.com/

Egyptian Henna Shampoo helps to remove oil deposits and prevents dandruff with continued use.

Quillaya Bark Hair Lather Shampoo provides natural saponins, which help give oily hair body and relieve flaky and itchy scalp.

Camomile Luxurious Herbal Shampoo blends coconut and olive oil castile with wheat protein for thicker hair and richer lathering. Camomile brings out the lighter shades of your hair, while rosemary warms and stimulates the scalp, effectively treating dandruff.

Green Tea Shampoo provides matcha green tea and conditioning agents such as rosemary, aloe vera, sage, nettle, coltsfoot and horsetail for a great cleansing and conditioning formula. Green tea is an excellent scalp and skin herb, known for helping to prevent sun-related skin and hair damage. Coltsfoot and horsetail are rich sources of organic nutrients such as silica and cysteine.

White Camellia & Jasmine Conditioning Shampoo contains white camellia oil, high in essential fatty acids for moisturizing hair. ItÕs Rosa Mosqueta¨ rose hip seed oil helps to revitalize dry and damaged hair, while its macadamia nut oil moisturizes without being greasy.

Aubrey's Men's Stock Ginseng Shampoo contains ginseng, which enhances circulation in the capillaries of the skin and increases the supply of nutrients to the hair. This helps to prevent or retard premature hair loss. Ginseng also protects damaged hair and gives it better manageability and less brittleness.

Aubrey's Natural Baby Shampoo is perhaps the safest brand for babies today and works extremely well without the use of irritating chemicals.

- - ======== end

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From ???@??? Wed Mar 11 17:07:51 1998
- for <.-.-.@ihug.co.nz>; Tue, 10 Mar 19998 18:06:27 -08000 (PST)
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980311150452.00711660@mail.oocities.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:04:52 +1300
To: "Who-Am-I, Who-I-Am, bios" Archive.
From: Michele D. H---
Subject: Fw: [Apothecary] Sodium lauryl sulfate in shampoos

Mark suggested that I pass this along to y'all....
{on the positive-futures discussion list}

-----Original Message-----
From: Michele D. H---
To: Mark M---
Date: Tuesday, March 10, 1998 6:03 PM
Subject: Fw: [Apothecary] Sodium lauryl sulfate in shampoos

>>>
From: Jennifer R---
To: Apothecary List <.-.-.@KJSL.COM>
Date: Monday, March 09, 1998 1:44 AM

Subject: [Apothecary] Sodium lauryl sulfate in shampoos

 This is one of the answers to a questions I've had for quite some time.
 This stuff is in everything! Toothpaste, shampoo, soap, all kinds of
 things. A Doctor told me it was a Carsonagenic, but didn't say why, but
 I've had quite a time trying to come up with substitutes, even in health
 food stores. It's incredable ! Does anyone have more information than
 this?
 Sodium Lauryl Sulfate (SLS) is perhaps the most harmful ingredient in
 personal-care products. SLS is used in testing-labs as the standard
 skin irritant to compare the healing properties of other ingredients.
 Industrial uses of SLS include: garage floor cleaners, engine
 degreasers and car wash soaps.

 SLS/SLES cleans by corrosion and dries skin by stripping the
 protective lipids so it can't effectively regulate moisture. It can
 cause hair loss by attacking the follicle and it may strip hair
 causing to dry out, get brittle, and snap off, or result in split
 ends. It also leaves behind irritating films that build up on the
 skin and in skin and hair. Studies show that SLS/SLES has a great
 potential for danger when used in personal-care products.
 Research has shown that SLS and SLES may cause potentially
 carcinogenic nitrates and dioxins to form in the bottles of shampoos
 and cleansers by reacting with commonly used ingredients found in many
 products. Large amounts of nitrates may enter the blood system from
 just one shampooing.


 Health, Hope, Joy & Healing :
         May you Prosper, even as your Soul Prospers
 Jennifer
>>>

Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 21:08:01 -0400
From: Mark M---
Message-ID: <35282AF1.76C0@erols.com>
References: <5653cab2.3527b717@aol.com> <3527F141.46F2@polaristel.net>
Subject: Re: Sodium laureth sulfate revisited--toothpaste
To:positive-futures@igc.org, Betsy Barnum 

> Woemomma wrote:
> 
> > Some (toothpaste) varieties of Sensodyne Toothpaste don't have it
> > [sodium lauryl sulfate, SLS], but they have saccharin.
> > I've switched to toothpowder, but haven't been able to find one that
> > doesn't taste foul. Sigh.

My toothpaste is from home baking soda, plus a tiny dash of the Arm & Hammer to take advantage of the peppermint. It really cleans. Problem is, it's too simple, not profitable for A&H (pity), and doesn't appear sophisticated enough to the average American consumer. When I was a kid growing up in Cleveland, we had salt mixed in with the baking soda, to add 'flavor.
I recommend it without. I guarantee that, if you use this formula, when you're finished brushing, and when you then look in the mirror, you will smile. Guaranteed. (If you don't, then write me and i'll send you a joke.)
On the down side, after brushing and then for about ten minutes, your taste buds will make anything acidic (like orange juice) taste a bit sour.
Mark.

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{a section of RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY #582:
- - - ONE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM }
- - © Environmental Research Foundation
 ....

The nature of the large publicly-traded corporation

** In the U.S., corporations were initially created as artificial, subordinate entities, chartered by state legislatures, with no rights of their own. Up till 1886 corporations could only serve the public purposes that they were specifically established to serve: build a canal, manage a toll road, finance and construct a bridge, and so forth. Their capitalization was fixed by law; they could not own other corporations; often their board of directors were required to live in the state where they were incorporated, to make them locally accountable. In these early years, a corporation's lifetime was finite, often 20 years.

For example, the Pennsylvania legislature declared in 1834: "A corporation in law is just what the incorporation act makes it. It is the creature of the law and may be moulded to any shape or for any purpose that the Legislature may deem most conducive for the common good."[3]

The constitution of the state of California in 1879 contained this clause (Article XII, section 8): "The exercise of the right of eminent domain shall never be so abridged or construed as to prevent the Legislature from taking the property and franchises of incorporated companies and subjecting them to public use the same as the property of individuals, and the exercise of the police power of the State shall never be so abridged or construed as to permit corporations to conduct their business in such manner as to infringe the rights of individuals or the general well-being of the State."[3]

After 1886 the situation changed. In an 1886 decision by the U.S. Supreme Court, corporations were given the status of "persons" under the US Constitution, protected by the Bill of Rights. After that, corporations could do anything that any other "person" could do, so long as it was legal. Armed with the Constitutional protections of individuals, but having none of the limitations of individuals, corporations soon ceased to be subordinate entities. Today many corporations are larger than countries. For example - Mitsubishi is larger than Indonesia. - General Motors is larger than Denmark. - Ford Motor is larger than South Africa and larger than Saudi Arabia. - Toyota Motor is larger than Portugal. - Wal-Mart Stores is larger than Israel, larger than Greeece.[4]

** For the most part, corporations are staffed by intelligent, well-meaning people. But the personal motivations of those individuals are not what motivates the corporation. A large publicly-traded corporation is driven by its own internal logic.

** A corporation has an internal drive that is comparable to a human's "will to live." Once a corporation is publicly traded, it:

- ** Must return a profit to investors;

- ** Must grow;

- ** Must externalize costs to the extentt feasible.

These are essential characteristics of the corporate form. If a corporation fails to provide a decent return for investors those investors can (and do) sue for breach of fiduciary trust. This requirement --to turn a profit -- narrowly limits what corporations can do. In general, what is unprofitable cannot be pursued. This means that individuals must sometimes put aside their consciences when they make decisions for a corporation. The most well-meaning people in the world are not free to act on their personal philosophies when they are acting on behalf of a publicly-held corporation. They must do what is profitable, which is not necessarily what is right.

....

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
- [3] Quoted in Richard Grossman, "Only tthe People Can Bee Socially
-  Responsible," in Trent Schroyer, editoor, A WORLD THAT  WORKS
 -  (New York: The Bootstrap Press, 1997), pgs. 171-181.
-  ISBN 0-942850-38-6.

- [4] Ward Morehouse, "Multinational Corpporations and Criimes Against 
-  Humanity," in Trent Schroyer, editor,  A WORLD THAT WORRKS 
-  (New York: The Bootstrap Press, 1997),, pg. 51. ISBN 0--942850-38-6.
-  Morehouse attributes the data to thesee sources: corporration data
-  from "Fortune's Global 500, The World''s Largest Corporrations,"
-  FORTUNE magazine August 7, 1995. Counttry information ffrom:
-  THE WORLD DEVELOPMENT REPORT (Washingtton, D.C.: World  Bank, 1996).

- - © Environmental Research Foundation
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
.-           ==========-            .
.-     ---January 22, 1998----      .
.-     ONE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM-     .

.-           ==========-            .

.               Environmental Research Foundation               .
.              P.O. Box 5036, Annapolis, MD  21403              .
.      Fax (410) 263-8944; Internet: erf@rachel.clark.net       .
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David MacClement
http://www.oocities.org/davd.geo/