Affluenza (& Escape From ..): Review & discussion, on Positive Futures list.
(window at least this wide:)
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From ???@??? Sat Feb 28 09:43:48 1998
To: positive-futures@igc.apc.org
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:57:24
From: Gordon Rands <gpr3@psu.edu>
Message-Id: <3.0.3.16.19980227125724.086f8dea@email.psu.edu>
Subject:
Review of "Affluenza"
About a week ago I mentioned that I had written a review of Affluenza for a
journal. Arnie and Nick asked me to post the review to the positive
futures list. I replied to them that I would be glad to once the issue of
the journal actually came out. It arrived yesterday, so below you will
find the review. It was published in
Organization & Environment, volume 11, number 1, March 1998, pp. 107-110. The journal is published by Sage Publications, in Thousand Oaks California.
------------------------------------------------
Film Review
John de Graff, Vivia Boe and colleagues, Producers.
Affluenza [video documentary produced for the Public Broadcasting System]
September, 1997.
(Distributed by Bullfrog Films, 1 800 543 FROG).
Af-flu-en-za n. 1. An epidemic of stress, overwork, shopping and debt
caused by dogged pursuit of the American Dream. 2. The bloated, sluggish
and unfulfilled feeling that results from one's efforts to keep up with
the Joneses. 3. An unsustainable addiction to economic growth. 4. A film that could change your life.
Defining and spreading the word about this disease to an infected public
is the mission of the hour long documentary, Affluenza. Although this
malady might once have been labeled stress or greed, Affluenza demonstrates
that the syndrome is much more complex. It is related to many of the
social and environmental problems that exist today, either as a cause, a
result, or both. The attempt by the producers to help viewers understand
this complex interrelationship is both one of the greatest strengths and
most serious weaknesses of the film.
The first two-thirds of Affluenza is structured around the symptoms of the
disease: shopping fever, chronic stress, hypercommercialism, "material boys
and girls" (marketing to and consumption by children), a rash of
bankruptcies, fractured families, "social scars" (a loss of community), and
"global infection" (socially and environmentally unsustainable practice).
For each symptom the film provides several examples, comments by experts,
and several factoids, all in a fast paced style. For example, under
"global infection" we learn that one-fifth of the world's people live in
absolute poverty, that since 1950 residents of the United States alone have
used more resources than all people who have lived on earth before them,
and that each American uses twenty tons of resources a year.
Former Harvard Business School marketing professor David Korten,
author of
When Corporations Rule the World (1995), tells viewers that
Perhaps the most intriguing segment on a symptom may be that on marketing
products to children. We hear a consultant speaking at a "Kid Power"
convention at Disney World, where he gives tips to marketers on "branding
children", and declares that "anti-social behavior in pursuit of a product
is a good thing".
The program's review of the wide range of symptoms of affluenza is
laudable but problematic. As a means of alerting viewers to the problem,
the broad scope provides something for everyone. Almost all viewers will
find one or more of their personal problems or social concerns in the
spotlight. From a persuasive standpoint, this can help spark concern for
and attention to the entire issue. In addition, a large number of
individuals who have been writing about these issues are introduced to
viewers. These include Korten, Alex Molnar, Richard Swenson, Michael
Jacobson, and Laurie Mazur. Many ordinary citizens are interviewed as
well, including a Colorado couple whom affluenza brought to the edge of
bankruptcy, a conservative evangelical minister concerned about the
spriritual impacts of materialism, and two Washington state high school
students who wrote and produced "Barbie Get Real", a play spoofing the
hollowness of the consumer lifestyle portrayed in childrens' toys.
The very number of symptoms poses a problem, however. The amount of time
which can be given to each is quite limited, and the spotlight feels more
like a strobe light. As a result, when the review of the symptoms is
finished the viewer can be left feeling overwhelmed and exhausted. The
fast paced production style -- interspersed with dramatized segments in a
doctor's office that attempt to maintain the "sickness" theme -- were
somewhat annoying to me. To be fair, however, the show kept the attention
of three of my children much better than would a typical documentary with a
serious tone throughout.
In fact, the feeling of being overwhelmed and exhausted may have been
intended, for just when the exhaustion is beginning to set in, the show
undergoes a change of pace as it begins to investigate the producers' main
prescription for prevention and cure: voluntary simplicity. The producers
recognize that the notion of a simpler, less consumptive lifestyle may be a
bitter pill for some viewers to take, so they begin with a brief review of
the practice of by historians David Shi and Susan Strasser. Social critic
Jeremy Rifkin notes that in the 19th century, consumption itself
(tuberculosis) was a bad thing. A quick review of the notion of simplicity
in American culture describes the interest in simple living at the turn of
the 20th century, the involuntary simplicity of the Great Depression, the
post World War II consumer boom fueled by government-housing and highway
policies, the counterculture movement of the 1960s and 1970s, and Jimmy
Carter's 1979 speech in which he criticized the increasing materialism of
American society. But as Shi aptly observes for viewers, "part of Jimmy
Carter's failure was his lack of recognition of how deep and widespread the
consumer culture had become".
And so, rather than turning down the thermostat and wearing sweaters,
American voters rejected a vaguely defined call for cooperation, community,
and conservation -- "freezing in the dark" as Ronald Reagan described it --
opting instead for Reagan's easily grasped vision of Morning in America,
based on competition, rugged individualism, and consumption. But, the
producers tell us, interest in voluntary simplicity is again on the rise
and may represent the way out of our reawakening sense of national malaise.
Before exploring the 1990s version of voluntary simplicity, the program
has -- what else? -- a commercial break. On PBS? Ah, but these are not
just any commercials. Rather, they are "uncommercials" from the
"Adbusters"project at The Media Foundation in Vancouver, British Columbia.
We see several examples of this group's parodies of television commercials,
which have been declined by most stations and networks even when the
project has offered to pay for air time. One ad presents a claymation pig
occupying much of a map of North America accompanied by facts about per
capita consumption. Another portrays a dinosaur made of toy motor vehicles
collapsing under its own weight. The work of the Foundation is summarized,
including its sponsorship of "Buy Nothing Day". This segment presents one
of the many subtle ironies in the film, in which individuals are given "I
Cut Up My Credit Cards" cards and "Enough" pins for their support of the
group's activities. Even nonconsumption and anti-materialism must, it
appears, be accompanied by material rewards.
The questionable ability of material goods to bring us happiness is
reinforced as Ted Halstead of Redefining Progress reviews the difference in
trendlines of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) and the Genuine Progress
Indicator (GPI). While the GDP has been rising fairly steadily, and often
spectacularly, since 1950, the GPI -- which adds in the value of services
ignored by the GDP such as volunteerism and housework and subtracts the
cost of harms such as pollution as well as remediative expenses such as
divorce lawyers' and doctors' fees -- has been falling since 1973. Thus,
the producers imply, the average citizen is worse off today than
twenty-five years ago.
This observation provides the introduction to the heart of the cure:
individual efforts to simplify and take control of one's own life. The
work of the late Joe Dominguez (to whom the show is dedicated) and Vicki
Robin, authors of the best-selling Your Money or Your Life (1992), is
spotlighted. We see Dominguez and Robin discussing their work, meeting
with the staff of The New Road Map Foundation (funded with the book's
proceeds), appearing on Ophrah, and learn that they each comfortably get by
on an income of $7000 per year. The show takes us to a workshop on
downshifting at Nike headquarters attended by 100 people, led by former
Portland corporate counsel Dick Roy, who with his wife Jeanne founded the
Northwest Earth Institute to provide such workshops. We visit a backyard
picnic of a Portland co-housing community whose members frequently share
meals, child care, and neighborhood work projects. Author Duane Elgin
tells us that a culture of simplicity is beginning to take root, and trend
watcher Gerald Celente informs us that voluntary simplicity is going
global. Celente suggests that 5% of American adults now practice voluntary
simplicity and projects that the number will rise to 15% by the year 2000.
Furthermore, the interest in simplicity is growing even more rapidly among
today's teens and pre-teens, whom Celente suggests will be tomorrow's
revolutionaries.
While the attention devoted to voluntary simplicity is more extensive than
that devoted to any of the symptoms of affluenza, it only begins to give
viewers a feel for what a simpler lifestyle might entail. The producers
recognized that Affluenza could only provide an introduction to voluntary
simplicity and are at work on a followup program, originally titled Living
Better on Less. This program, which is envisioned as a pilot for a
possible series, will focus on how to live frugally and simply. The very
idea that there could be sufficient audience interest in such a series --
even in Seattle, the hotbed of the voluntary simplicity movement -- is
astounding and encouraging. Interest in the followup program is strong; it
is now titled Beyond Affluenza, in light of viewer response to Affluenza.
According to DeGraaf, at least seven local PBS affiliates reported more
than 100 phone calls from viewers about the show, with more than 95% of
them being positive. At Seattle's KCTS the program generated 220 phone
calls; in a normal week, the most calls received about a show is 30. That
the program appealed to viewers with varying political viewpoints is
indicated by the three cities with the highest viewer phone response:
liberal San Francisco and Minneapolis and conservative Salt Lake City.
Is Affluenza just what the doctor ordered for your class, team, or
community group? Although the production has its weaknesses, it is,
nonetheless, a very effective introduction to the issues of overconsumption
and voluntary simplicity. Students in my business and society classes were
required to watch the show when it aired. It sparked a good discussion, and
one student later chose affluenza as the topic for a speech in another
course. Adding to the program's value is the extensive amount of
supporting information available at the show's web site. Pointing your
browser to http://www.pbs.org/kcts/affluenza/ will open up a veritable
medicine chest of resources: books, periodicals, organizations, and online
discussion lists that explore the various symptoms diagnosed and treatments
prescribed by the show. A viewer's guide and K-12 teacher's guide are
particularly useful for those wishing to engage others in a discussion of
the issues.
In my opinion, attention to these issues will only increase in the future.
That a simpler, less consumptive lifestyle is seen as a possible cure for
the various problems that the program describes suggests that voluntary
simplicity will grow as a lifestyle choice and as a social movement. As
such, it is potentially more challenging to business than are any of the
movements associated with the invididual problems. Those in business, and
those in academia who study business, would be well advised to become
familiar with this issue.
Affluenza closes with Scott Simon making two assertions. The first, that
"earth could support the world's population at nearly our living standards
if we revised many of our consumption and spending habits," will be
disputed by proponents of differing ideologies. Some will argue that even
at dramatically reduced levels of consumption and increased levels of
productive eco-efficiency, human population must be reduced to achieve a
sustainable future. Many more will argue that revising spending and
consumption habits as the proponents of voluntary simplicity suggest will
in fact destroy our current standard of living. The challenge which
Affluenza so nicely poses for the latter group is whether society should
choose to emphasize quantity or quality of life. The second assertion,
although perhaps overstated, should appeal to viewers of almost all
ideological persuasions: "affluenza is one malady we can cure by spending
less money, not more." That simple statement has enormous implications for
the practice of business in the 21st century.
-- Gordon P. Rands
Pennsylvania State University
REFERENCES
Dominguez, J., & Robin, V. (1992). Your Money or Your Life: Transforming
your relationship with money and achieving financial independence. New
York: Viking.
{obtainable from: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0140167153/intpbusinessbookA/001-9760340-8670169 }
Korten, D. (1995). When Corporations Rule the World. West Hartford, CT, and
San Francisco, CA: Kumarian/Berrett-Koehler.
{obtainable from: http://www.opengroup.com/open/bfbooks/188/1887208003.shtml }
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 00:37:34 EDT
From: WrtngZone@aol.com
Message-ID: <1f302135.3590828f@aol.com>
Subject: ESCAPE FROM AFFLUENZA VIDEO
To: positive-futures@igc.org
ESCAPE FROM AFFLUENZA VIDEO
This is the sequel to the popular “Affluenza” documentary which illustrates
the devastating consequences of our peculiar consumerist lifestyle.
Escape From Affluenza goes beyond the diagnosis of this disease and goes
directly into how we can escape.
The documentary gives us colorful examples of people who have made the
courageous plunge into withdrawal. We see Cecile Andrews facilitate a
Simplicity Study Circle... we see famed environmentalist Alan Durning explain
the ecological impact/footprint from our daily cup of java... we witness two
environmentalists become dumbfounded after they perform a check list of all
the stuff they own... we see downsized people taking the challenge to begin
doing what they love... we see Dutch people being quite happy with their
frugal lifestyle (what Juliet Schor calls “post consumerism” [see review of
her latest book in this issue])... we see people leaving high paying jobs
because of stress and meaninglessness... we see people resume a profound
appreciation for the simple things due to an unexpected diagnosis of a life-
threatening disease.
We watch people bicycle...
. have appliances repaired rather than tossed out...
. raising chickens in their urban backyards,
. taking the bus, walking, buying used books and clothes
and . getting to know their backyard wetlands.
This excellent documentary will be shown throughout the country on July 7 at
9PM on PBS stations countrywide.
TIME TO GET THE WORD OUT!!!
Bob Banner
publisher of HopeDance
the above review will be published in the July/August issue [special issue on
Healing] of HopeDance Magazine. For a copy send $2 to
hopedance magazine
POB 15609
San Luis Obispo, CA 93406
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Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:08:39 -0700
From: "Arnie P. Anfinson"
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980624123323.007399a0@pop.seanet.com>
Subject: Re: ESCAPE FROM AFFLUENZA VIDEO
To: WrtngZone@aol.com, positive-futures@igc.org
At 12:37 AM 6/24/98 EDT, WrtngZone@aol.com wrote:
>ESCAPE FROM AFFLUENZA VIDEO
> We see Cecile Andrews facilitate a Simplicity Study Circle.
Your review of Escape from Affluenza missed one important part of the
documentary - that of non-"expert"-organized Voluntary Simplicity Study
Circles (VSSC). The importance of the many such groups is in the SUPPORT
people get in standing their ground when friends/peers deride them for
their "simpleton" ways. We've had much of this discussed in our Circle
that has existed for 6 1/2 years. Many people have reached the point were
they ENJOY shocking their friends and colleagues with personal stories of
the FREEDOM they feel when the give up trying to "keep up with the
Joneses". -- Many also make new friends! We also discuss many how-tos,
etc. After our last meeting a young couple went home with red (blooded :-) )
worms for their new worm bin!
Arnie
"Possessions, outward success, publicity, luxury -- to me these have
always been contemptible. I believe that a simple and unassuming manner
of life is best for everyone, best for both the body and the mind."
Albert Einstein
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Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:36:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: gthomas@acad.suffolk.edu
In-Reply-To: <01BDAA48.8D959680.smasse@advcorp.com>
Message-ID:
Subject: Re: Affluenza
On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, Susan Masse wrote:
> For those of you living in Oregon and SW Washington:
>
> OPB will air ESCAPE FROM AFFLUENZA on July 20th at 10:00pm.
>
> In Peace
>
> Sue
>
Boston saw Escape from Affluenza last night. Affluenza will be on this
weekend. They showed it once already, but too early in the morning for
me! This is the first time I saw it and I'm looking forward to hearing
what people have to say about it. It's no doubt made the rounds on this
list before, but that's one thing a list like this is for. Hashing and
rehashing to regain inspiration at regular intervals!
Glynys
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Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 11:43:17 -0700
From: "Devito, Debra {~Palo Alto}"
Message-id: <39C89E38D5AED111A50C0000F80197880A3654@rplmsem1e.pal.roche.com>
Subject: FW: Affluenza
To: "'positive-futures@igc.org'"
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Devito, Debra {~Palo Alto} [SMTP:DEBRA.DEVITO@roche.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 1998 11:29 AM
> To: 'positive-futures@icg.org'
> Subject: FW: Affluenza
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Debra Devito, July 08, 1998 10:28 AM
> >
> > For those living in the San Francisco bay area. Who watched "Escape
> > from Affluenza" last night?
> > I saw it myself for the first time and was absolutely glued to the set
> > during the entire broadcast. Why aren't we doing things the way the
> > Dutch do?
> > How did Americans become so "me first"? I know alot of this type of
> > thinking came about as a result of the war, but Europe was involved
> > in this war as well and don't seem to have the same stigma.
> >
> > Debra
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Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 11:44:01 -0700
From: J D Smith
Message-ID: <35A3BDF1.716C18@wanweb.net>
References: <01BDAA48.8D959680.smasse@advcorp.com>
Subject: Re: Affluenza
To: Susan Masse
Actually, it all depends on where you live and what channel carries your
PBS shows. Our TV listings say that Escape from Affluenza will be on
tonight at 9PM. We're in southern Oregon (Roseburg). So, it might be
worthwhile to check your own listings carefully, as I did when I found
out it wasn't going to be aired on July 7 as advertised everywhere else.
Hope this helps and thanks to Sue for the information which is probably
about the Portland and Vancouver area.
Chris Smith
csmith@wanweb.net
Susan Masse wrote:
> For those of you living in Oregon and SW Washington:
> OPB will air ESCAPE FROM AFFLUENZA on July 20th at 10:00pm.
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Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 11:59:48 -0700
From: Susan Masse
Message-ID: <01BDAA67.E8F0F1E0.smasse@advcorp.com>
Subject: RE: Affluenza
To: "'J D Smith'" , Susan Masse
Thank you for finding this out. My post to OPB asked when it would be airing
in "Oregon". Guess they figured we *all* live in Portland.
BTW, has anyone else checked out the OPB website -- totally unfriendly
to anyone using a text-based browser, including vision impaired. A friend
and I are trying to get them to add a text only version, but it is slow going.
Another friend, (vision impaired) has requested this also. So far, no
real response from OPB. It irritates me that they advertise this "great" new
website on TV and radio with *my* contributor dollars --
End of rant. Sorry.
Sue
On Wednesday, July 08, 1998 11:44 AM, J D Smith wrote:
> Actually, it all depends on where you live and what channel carries your
> PBS shows. Our TV listings say that Escape from Affluenza will be on
> tonight at 9PM. We're in southern Oregon (Roseburg). ...
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Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 12:25:15 -0700
From: "Devito, Debra {~Palo Alto}"
Message-id: <39C89E38D5AED111A50C0000F80197880A3656@rplmsem1e.pal.roche.com>
Subject: RE: Affluenza
To: "'gthomas@acad.suffolk.edu'"
Yes, the San Francisco bay area broadcasted it last night. I loved it!
It was my first time viewing it as well, and was very excited to see all
of the enthusiasm. It gave me some extra inspiration to continue my
studies/beginning practices on the subject.
Debra
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gthomas@acad.suffolk.edu [SMTP:gthomas@acad.suffolk.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 1998 9:36 AM
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Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 14:10:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gray
Message-Id: <199807082110.OAA17381@igc6.igc.org>
Subject: Escape from Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
From: Scheffler_Jim/vt_state_dec_airpoll@qtm.anr.state.vt.us
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 98 14:40:03 -0400Message-Id:
Subject: Escape From Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
I saw "Escape From Affluenza" last night and thought it was really well
done - both entertaining and informative. However, I did think that it
focused a little too much on people who 'had it all' and gave it all up
for a VS lifestyle (e.g. the Microsoft employee and the six-figure
personnel administrator)instead of people who started from little or
nothing. Did anyone else have the same reaction?
When I first became aware of VS a few years ago, the media was really
focused on the investment banker types who got tired of the fast life
and dropped out. Many people of modest incomes probably saw those
stories and decided that VS had little relevance to their lives (at
least, that was the reaction of several people I know). Recent media
reports I have seen (including "Escape From Affluenza") have been more
balanced.
After reading YMOYL recently, I started to realize that people at all
economic levels have compelling reasons to work toward VS. However, I'm
left with the impression that VS has something of a public relations
problem. Any comments?
Jim
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Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:08:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: ryuuka@wcinet.net (Mr. Sparkle)
Message-Id: <199807082008.NAA02102@wci2.wcinet.net>
Subject: Re: FW: Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
>> > For those living in the San Francisco bay area. Who watched "Escape
>> > from Affluenza" last night? I saw it myself for the first time and was
>>absolutely glued to the set during the entire broadcast.
I guess I always have to be different; I was disappointed in the program.
It seemed very tame and superficial. I actually fell asleep at 9:40! Maybe
it's because it was nothing new to me or something, I don't know. But I'm
also disappointed that I was disappointed. I was intrigued by the analysis
of all that goes into a cup of coffee, especially remembering the thread of
a couple of months ago.
Carol Billings
McKinleyville, CA
---
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Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 15:44:11 -0700
From: "Devito, Debra {~Palo Alto}"
Message-id: <39C89E38D5AED111A50C0000F80197880A3658@rplmsem1e.pal.roche.com>
Subject: RE: Escape from Affluenza
To: "'Tom Gray'"
Tom,
Ya, I felt the same. I was really hoping that the concentration wouldn't
be so much on the "gave it ups" as it would the "want to live better w/outs".
I myself don't have money and am a single parent living in a very
affluent and high living cost area. I am beginning to learn VS living
because it suits not only my pocket book, but my conscience.
Today I had my first experience of shopping for second hand clothing for
myself. I buy second hand all the time for my son, but have never for myself.
I was amazed at what I got for $31.76. A whole weeks worth of clothing
and then some!
Debra
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Gray [SMTP:tomgray@igc.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 1998 2:11 PM
> To: positive-futures@igc.org
> Subject: Escape from Affluenza
>
> From: Scheffler_Jim/vt_state_dec_airpoll@qtm.anr.state.vt.us
> Date: Wed, 8 Jul 98 14:40:03 -0400Message-Id:
> Subject: Escape From Affluenza
> To: positive-futures@igc.org
>
> I saw "Escape From Affluenza" last night and thought it was really
> well done - both entertaining and informative. However, I did think that it
> focused a little too much on people who 'had it all' and gave it all up
> for a VS lifestyle
> ...
> Jim
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Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 16:23:18 -0700
From: J D Smith
Message-ID: <35A3FF66.984CC7C5@wanweb.net>
References: <199807082008.NAA02102@wci2.wcinet.net>
Subject: Re: TV in general (was:Affluenza)
To: positive-futures@igc.org
I won't see the show until tonight, but have a thought about your
disappointment.Could it be the nature of TV programming in general? It seems to
me that television's main (and possibly only) focus is on entertainment.
Therefore, whatever is broadcast, either on cable or PBS, is supposed to be
entertaining and therefore, not too deep. You've probably noticed this with news programs and other "educational" programs as well.
Those of us who have done lots of reading, studying, and practicing of VS are
probably bound to be disappointed because we DO know all this stuff. Wouldn't
it be great if TV could skip the entertainment stuff for once and focus on
serious topics. Of course, then no one would watch. Hmmmm.... Is this why I
rarely watch TV - because I can't reconcile what I think it SHOULD be with
what it actually IS?
Chris Smith
> I guess I always have to be different; I was disappointed in the program.
> It seemed very tame and superficial. I actually fell asleep at 9:40! Maybe
> it's because it was nothing new to me or something, I don't know. But I'm
> also disappointed that I was disappointed. I was intrigued by the analysis
> of all that goes into a cup of coffee, especially remembering the thread of
> a couple of months ago.
>
> Carol Billings
> McKinleyville, CA
>
> ---
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Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 20:24:47 EDT
From: MsKCCat@aol.com
Message-ID: <4a10acae.35a40dd0@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
In a message dated 7/8/98 6:02:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Scheffler_Jim/vt_state_dec_airpoll@qtm.anr.state.vt.us wrote:
<< However, I did think that it focused a little too much on people who 'had
it all' and gave it all up for a VS lifestyle (e.g. the Microsoft employee and
the six-figure personnel administrator) instead of people who started from
little or nothing. Did anyone else have the same reaction? >>
Yup..I was thinking the same thing myself, Jim.
>>I started to realize that people at all economic levels have compelling
reasons to work toward VS. However, I'm left with the impression that VS has
something of a public relations problem. Any comments? >>
Well, one basic problem with promoting VS is that it is called VOLUNTARY
Simplicity.
People at the lower end of the scale are practicing frugality to survive
physically, and some of us believe in simplicity to survive
emotionally/mentally. Either way, not too voluntary.
It is NOT a simple thing to be poor. I had a very complicated life when I was
homeless. I had to figure out where to sleep each night, where I could get
food and how often, how to deal with downpours and cold, where to clean up,
how to keep any possessions with me, how to pass the time during the day, and
mostly how to deal with my lost sense of self.
Things improved and I received public assistance. Still not simple. Needed
to figure out how to fill out endless complicated forms, how to get places
with no car or bus money, how to buy groceries when I had to carry them home,
how to afford a place to live with a 200/m allotment.
Things improved again. I went to college. Still not simple. How to get to
classes. How to budget lump sum grant to last whole year. How to deal with
studying in a sub-standing living arrangement.
Things improved yet again. I got married. Still not simple. How to deal
with crushing expenses from previous years. How to go to work in one city,
with one car, while hubby worked 10 miles away. How to afford house, car,
furniture.
Things got worse. I had work injury. 50% disabled. Couldn't return to work.
Had to deal with forms, and loss of income. I got divorced. Had to deal with
Public Assistance (this was simpler, I knew the ropes), Had to figure out
transportation in rural area when car died. Had to figure out how to apply
for benefits.
Had nervous breakdown, admitted to hospital. Had 3 more breakdowns. Lost
everything when I was hospitalized for 6 months. More PA, Medicare, Food
Stamps, Section 8, HEAP, SSD, SSDI, Workers Comp. and hospital paperwork to
fill out. And fill out and fill out.
Got better, went back to work part time--as mental health advocate. Had to
keep income under $500/month or lose benefits. NOT a simple thing to do.
Went full-time, was downsized, moved away to "better" job, lost that, moved
back to another job, downsized again, got even "better" job. Lost that.
Worked 60 hours plus.
Not simple at all.
Now--back on SSDI. Living according to my beliefs and values. Still not
totally "simple," working on it little by little, definitely voluntary and
satisfying.
The thing is income doesn't matter really---a persons ability to positively
affect his/her own life by living deeply held values--that's what really
matters. It is hard to live by values in a society that has lost touch with
each other and the earth. Very seldom was I recognized as a person and not a
case number. This gets internalized. So even when I had money, it wasn't
ENOUGH.
IMHO, maybe the focus should be on a more personally enriching life,
regardless of amount or source of income? That would remove social economic
barriers and start a real dialogue between "haves" and "have-nots."
Everyone would have ENOUGH.
KC (who is in the process of writing a book and who is going back to her lost
roots: her father was Native American)
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Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 15:55:45 -0700
From: Susan Masse
Message-ID: <01BDAA88.DF980CC0.smasse@advcorp.com>
Subject: RE: Escape from Affluenza
To: "'Tom Gray'" ,
"positive-futures@igc.org"
On Wednesday, July 08, 1998 2:11 PM, Tom Gray wrote:
> From: Scheffler_Jim/vt_state_dec_airpoll@qtm.anr.state.vt.us
> Date: Wed, 8 Jul 98 14:40:03 -0400Message-Id:
> Subject: Escape From Affluenza
> To: positive-futures@igc.org
>
> I saw "Escape From Affluenza" last night [snip] I did think that it
> focused a little too much on people who 'had it all' and gave it all up
> for a VS lifestyle [snip]?
>
> [snip] Many people of modest incomes [snip] decided that VS had little >relevance to their lives (at least, that was the reaction of several people
>I know). Recent media reports I have seen (including "Escape From Affluenza")
>have been more balanced.
>
> After reading YMOYL recently, I started to realize that people at all
> economic levels have compelling reasons to work toward VS. However, I'm
> left with the impression that VS has something of a public relations
> problem. Any comments?
>
> Jim
>
=======================
I haven't seen the show yet (July 20th, here), but I first got interested in VS in the early 1980s. At that time, I saw it as an elaborate way to escape -- a 60s hangover back-to-the-land, live-in-the-woods kind of fantasy. A lot of folks I know still think this way.
It has taken me a long time to fully appreciate that VS in today's world means living in balance, physically and spiritually. When I am balanced/centered, it seems like walking on water . . . when I am off balance it is like walking through wet concrete.
If you talk about centering and balance, many folks think of you as some New Age visionary, and lump you with the "hippies" (above). So for me, sharing the VS lifestyle (as well as trying to live it) has become a "public relations problem".
I can still see in my mind's eye the sampler in my grandmother's kitchen:
Use it up
Wear it out
Make it do
or
Do without.
There were pictures of a needle & thread, a sock with a hole in it and
something else I can't remember.
(If I could get "recycling" to rhyme somehow, I would stitch a new copy )
To me, this is not "visionary". This is about as concrete as you can get.
When you have lots of family, and not much money, scraping the peanut
butter jar to get the last out of it is not an affectation -- it's survival.
Learning to reweave fabric (or even sew a smooth patch) means a lot
more when the alternative is sleeping without one sheet. Buying a new
set (or even thrift shop new) isn't an option when there is food and shelter
to find . . .I could go on, but I won't. You all have "been there, done that" one way or another.
Living lightly on the earth will soon be a necessity, if any are to live at all. We have had some practice, but many people have not even thought about it. When the life boat overturns, we may find ourselves teaching the rest how to swim -- in shark-infested waters.
So this "public relations problem" with VS is non-trivial. I would invite anyone who has had success in sharing to let us all know how to do it. (I have taught swimming before -- it's much easier when your student can still touch bottom 8-) )
In Peace,
Sue
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Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 20:47:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: ryuuka@wcinet.net (Mr. Sparkle)
Message-Id: <199807090347.UAA08146@wci2.wcinet.net>
Subject: Re: TV in general (was:Affluenza)
To: positive-futures@igc.org
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4
X-Sender: ryuuka@wcinet.net
>I won't see the show until tonight, but have a thought about your
>disappointment.Could it be the nature of TV programming in general?
I hadn't thought of this, but you may be right. I've watched so little TV
lately, like maybe 15 minutes a week, that I forgot what it was like. The
thing is, I was REALLY looking forward to this program. Unrealistic
expectations maybe?
Carol B.
McKinleyville
---
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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 01:00:59 EDT
From: Sylvertoo@aol.com
Message-ID:
Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
Hello to all!
Another lurker dis-lurks(?).
Anyway, for some reason or another KCTS in Seattle showed Escape From
Affluenza about a month or so ago. I had heard about but never had a chance
to see Affluenza so I tuned into Escape.
For me, the timing was perfect. It gave me some inspirational folks to view
as possible role models, and best of all listed books and authors I could find
to expand my knowledge.
I agree that the program is not probably the difinitive work on simplicity,
however, it certainly was enough to whet my appetite and get me started in a
direction I find more fulfilling and pleasing day by day.
It has been very interesting reading the list and checking out new sites
suggested by members--more of a growing/learning experience. And I do thank
all of you for sharing your knowledge so willingly.
The most attractive part of the simplicity movement that I have seen is
building community. And it was toward this end that joined the list in the
first place. Its very helpful for me as a "newbe" to hear the experiences of
those who have tried some of the suggestions.
Again, thanks to all of you for sharing,
Hildi
ICQ #9577310
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Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 19:40:40 -1000 (HST)
From: sustainlifenet@webtv.net (Richard Weigel)
Message-ID: <22918-35A457D8-367@mailtod-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
Subject: RE: Escape from Affluenza
To: smasse@advcorp.com (Susan Masse)
Folks, it's very interesting to hear your responses to "Escape..." --
perhaps more so, since Arnie and I are both in it (Oh alright, so MY
part lasted all of three seconds!). At least I can tell people(and
DID!) that I made my national TV debut. And I met with assoc. producer
Francine Strickwerda last fall to discuss the "next" show in the series,
"Paradise, Going, Going..." about the effects of mass tourism and
commercialism to tourist locations and indigenous cultures.
UNFORTUNATELY, PBS gave the idea the big heave ho. That's political
correctness for ya.
I am interested in media reviews -- particularly NEGATIVE ones. This
because it is important and fascinating to hear how such an apple pie
and baseball sort of concept can be argued against. John DeGraaf told me
he had a collection of reviews, but I never saw any of them. If anyone
sees any on-line, please send them my/our way.
Personally, the sequel seemed more like "PBS" to me than the original.
Very, I guess you'd say, slow and personal, rather than flashy as
Affluenza was for much of its length (not that there's anything wrong
with that ;) ). This may be in part due to Wanda Urbanska's drawl,
compared to the quick tongue of Scott Simon. At least they put them in
the right order! They got our attention with the original. I'm afraid
many who missed the original may have turned off "Escape" early. What
d'you think?
BTW: Is anyone out there besides Betsy and myself taking in the
Institute for Deep Ecology training(s) at Chinook this month?
Aloha pumehana,
Rich
//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\
One of the banks in Hawaii has the motto "We say 'Yes' to you", meaning
"We are eager for your money".
Robert Aitken Roshi, from Entering the Realm of Reality:
Toward Dhammic Societies
\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\//
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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 04:33:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gray
Message-Id: <199807091133.EAA12321@igc4.igc.org>
Subject: RE: Escape from Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
Rich Weigel writes:
> Folks, it's very interesting to hear your responses to "Escape..." --
> perhaps more so, since Arnie and I are both in it (Oh alright, so MY
> part lasted all of three seconds!). At least I can tell people(and
> DID!) that I made my national TV debut. And I met with assoc. producer
> Francine Strickwerda last fall to discuss the "next" show in the series,
> "Paradise, Going, Going..." about the effects of mass tourism and
> commercialism to tourist locations and indigenous cultures.
> UNFORTUNATELY, PBS gave the idea the big heave ho. That's political
> correctness for ya.
Is it? Did they tell you their reasons? What's more politically
incorrect than a TV show that attacks overconsumption?
Congrats on your debut.
> Personally, the sequel seemed more like "PBS" to me than the original.
> Very, I guess you'd say, slow and personal, rather than flashy as
> Affluenza was for much of its length (not that there's anything wrong
> with that ;) ). This may be in part due to Wanda Urbanska's drawl,
> compared to the quick tongue of Scott Simon. At least they put them in
> the right order! They got our atttention with the original. I'm afraid
> many who missed the original may have turned off "Escape" early. What
> d' you think?
I liked it a lot. Especially liked the coverage of the family
with the teenage daughter who doesn't like their lifestyle -- I
thought it was very intelligently and sensitively done, and a
reminder of what TV could be.
I think people who aren't ready for it might have turned it
off. But hey, that's what unhype is all about, right?
Tom
http://www.econet.org/frugal
"If all of humanity were to disappear, the remainder of life
would spring back and flourish. The mass extinctions now under
way would cease, the damaged ecosystems heal and expand
outwards. If all the ants somehow disappeared, the effect would
be exactly the opposite, and catastrophic. Species extinction
would increase even more over the present rate, and the land
ecosystems would shrivel rapidly as the considerable services
provided by the insects were pulled away."
--JOURNEY TO THE ANTS, Bert Hoelldobler and Edward O. Wilson
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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 06:41:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: ryuuka@wcinet.net (Mr. Sparkle)
Message-Id: <199807091341.GAA12919@wci2.wcinet.net>
Subject: Significance of Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
>The next night we had a serious conversation about how we
>wanted to change our lives and attitudes to better reflect some of what
>we learned on this show. Just thought that it might hearten some of you
>people who were disapointed to know that for someone very new to the
>concept (VERY new) it was very eye opening and yes, life changing. So
>though it may not have impressed you guys, I am certain my husband and I
>weren't the only "newbies" that it made re-think their lives.
Wow! That's great! Shows how much I know. I haven't been able to
concentrate on much lately anyway because, well, I'm sort of falling in
love, kind of, maybe.
So Arnie, which star were you?
Carol Billings
McK, CA
---
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Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 06:52:18 -0700
From: Diane Fitzsimmons
Message-ID: <35A4CB11.AFB@ou.edu>
Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
In response to Jim's comments, I agree totally. I did not see "Escape
from Affluenza" (little league game, instead!), but his observation has
been mine as well in most of the media coverage I've seen on VS.
I come from a blue-collar background in the lower class. When I
read/see most stories on VS through the lens of my class bias, what I
see are people who played the game, got theirs and are now sitting
pretty. I know it's not as simple as that, but I get tired of VS being
portrayed as some sort of early retirement scheme for the upper class.
I understand the importance of persuading the upper class to cut back
on its rampant consumerism. But, as a person who has spent most of her
life on the lower rungs of the class structure, I think it's just as
important to persuade the lower and middle class that VS is relevant to
their lives, that their lifestyles can be fulfilling, indeed important
in maintaining the balance of earth's resources.
Of course, let me stress that I am not talking about the truly
impoverished, those practicing "involuntary simplicity." All people
deserve decent, safe housing; adequate, nutritious diets; and access to
good health care, transportation, meaningful work and education.
JMO, Diane
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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:45:13 -0400
From: jcryer@atl.mindspring.com (Janice Ryer)
Message-Id:
Subject: Re: Significance of Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
I am new to this list and to voluntary simplicity BECAUSE of the PBS shows,
which aired in Atlanta on Tuesday night. I was stunned and didn't move for
two hours. I taped the shows and intend to watch them again with my
children. I have been interested in simplifying my life for some time, but
(and please do not throw cyber-tomatoes at me for saying this) it had never
occurred to me what overconsumption was doing to the earth. Well, duh!
My big challenge now is to convince my children to join me as I attempt to
jump off the six-lane consumption expressway to the little garden path of
simplicity. Wish me luck (and please pass along any tips for a single
parent dealing with teenagers!)
Peace,
Janice
>>The next night we had a serious conversation about how we
>>wanted to change our lives and attitudes to better reflect some of what
>>we learned on this show. Just thought that it might hearten some of you
>>people who were dissapointed to know that for someone very new to the
>>concept (VERY new) it was very eye opening and yes, life changing. So
>>though it may not have impressed you guys, I am certain my husband and I
>>weren't the only "newbies" that it made re-think their lives.
>
>Wow! That's great! Shows how much I know. I haven't been able to
>concentrate on much lately anyway because, well, I'm sort of falling in
>love, kind of, maybe.
>
>So Arnie, which star were you?
>
>Carol Billings
>McK, CA
>---
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Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 09:24:23 -0700
From: "Devito, Debra {~Palo Alto}"
Message-id: <39C89E38D5AED111A50C0000F80197880A365B@rplmsem1e.pal.roche.com>
Subject: RE: Escape from Affluenza
To: "'Diane Fitzsimmons'"
Diane,
I agree. As a single mother I too find it frustrating to only target the
upper class. I know that my own life has shown much more significance
since practicing VS, and I've never had money!
I think it would be very advantagous to introduce the ideas behind VS to
all class structures not as a "fad" for the well to do enviro wannabes,
but as a way of life for all.
Debra
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Diane Fitzsimmons [SMTP:dcfitzsimmons@ou.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, July 09, 1998 6:52 AM
> To: positive-futures@igc.org
> Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
>
> In response to Jim's comments, I agree totally. I did not see "Escape
> from Affluenza" (little league game, instead!), but his observation
> has been mine as well in most of the media coverage I've seen on VS.
> I come from a blue-collar background in the lower class. When I
> read/see most stories on VS through the lens of my class bias, what I
> see are people who played the game, got theirs and are now sitting
> pretty. I know it's not as simple as that, but I get tired of VS
> being portrayed as some sort of early retirement scheme for the upper class.
> I understand the importance of persuading the upper class to cut
> back on its rampant consumerism. But, as a person who has spent most of
> her life on the lower rungs of the class structure, I think it's just as
> important to persuade the lower and middle class that VS is relevant
> to their lives, that their lifestyles can be fulfilling, indeed important
> in maintaining the balance of earth's resources.
> Of course, let me stress that I am not talking about the truly
> impoverished, those practicing "involuntary simplicity." All people
> deserve decent, safe housing; adequate, nutritious diets; and access
> to good health care, transportation, meaningful work and education.
>
> JMO, Diane
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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 12:14:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: gthomas@acad.suffolk.edu
In-Reply-To: <199807082110.OAA17381@igc6.igc.org>
Message-ID:
Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, Tom Gray wrote:
> From: Scheffler_Jim/vt_state_dec_airpoll@qtm.anr.state.vt.us
> Date: Wed, 8 Jul 98 14:40:03 -0400Message-Id:
> Subject: Escape From Affluenza
> To: positive-futures@igc.org
>
> I saw "Escape From Affluenza" last night and thought it was really well
> done - both entertaining and informative. However, I did think that it
> focused a little too much on people who 'had it all' and gave it all up
> for a VS lifestyle (e.g. the Microsoft employee and the six-figure
> personnel administrator)instead of people who started from little or
> nothing. Did anyone else have the same reaction?
>
I also had this reaction, not for the first time, as some of the books
pertinent to VS also seem to have been written by reformed fast-trackers.
It mainly makes me wonder if it takes having been wealthy to get anywhere
with this financial independence thing. But, I just keep plugging.
I think you're right about the public relations problem. I read Your
Money or Your Life in 1992 and really didn't relate to it, except for
the money saving tips chapter. It wasn't until I read Amy Dacyczyn's
books/newsletter that the whole concept of simplifying and becoming
financially indpendent seemed accessible and she writes from an
average working class viewpoint. Then I reread YMOYL and it made
more sense to me and seemed worthwhile trying to study and really make a
go of.
Anyway, those are my observations. I try to relate to the stories of
people like me and appreciate in a removed way the stories of the former
six figure types.
P.S. I loved the Joneses! and am so glad they have surrendered -- even
though keeping up with them was never an issue for me.
Glynys
Boston
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Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 13:29:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: gthomas@acad.suffolk.edu
In-Reply-To: <39C89E38D5AED111A50C0000F80197880A3662@rplmsem1e.pal.roche.com>
Message-ID:
Subject: newsletters
To: "'positive-futures@igc.org'"
On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Devito, Debra {~Palo Alto} wrote:
> Glynys,
> Forgive my ignorance, but what newletters are you referring to, and
> where can I find them?
> If it helped you to understand, perhaps it would do the same for me.
>
> Debra
> California
Sorry, Debra. Obscurity seems to be my forte. Amy Dacyczyn used to write
a newsletter called the Tightwad Gazette
(I'm pretty sure that was the name) and I think she stopped doing the
newsletter when the first book (Tightwad Gazette I) cumulated them. They
are entirely separate from Affluenza or Escape From, but for me, cause I
was coming from the where-does-all-my-money-go-I'll-never-afford-children
and working class perspectives she really hooked me. The newsletters had
just plain practical, sensible advice on saving money and some really
weird over-the-top stuff like how to use orange juice can lids or dryer
lint, or whatever.
Anyway, they helped me (and the friend I split the subscription with) get
into the habit of frugality and that then led me to some financial power
and security and then to a broader sense of ones impact on the world.
Because I had become so frugal, I was suddenly able
to make decisions about what I would afford. It wasn't "I can't
afford that," but "I will afford this, but not that." That meant, for me,
supporting certain causes and charities, and better food (more wholesome,
good organic foods). And that sort of led to wanting a more low
impact/sustainable, environmentally aware approach in everything.
Does this progression sound familiar to anyone? I suppose it is
very individual. What I've liked about this group is everyone's
acknowledgement that the road you travel is your own, we can still meet on
the other end.
Glynys
Boston
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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:46:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: "MURRAY,JEFFREY P"
In-reply-to: (DEBRA.DEVITO@roche.com)
Message-Id: <199807091946.PAA12457@acmey.gatech.edu>
Reply-to: jeff.murray@gtri.gatech.edu
Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
Debra wrote:
>Diane,
>I agree. As a single mother I too find it frustrating to only target the
>upper class. I know that my own life has shown much more significance
>since practicing VS, and I've never had money!
>I think it would be very advantagous to introduce the ideas behind VS to
>all class structures not as a "fad" for the well to do enviro wannabes,
>but as a way of life for all.
>
I have to pipe in here a little. And I'm not picking on Diane or Debra.
Although I certainly agree that much of the media attention
w.r.t. VS has focussed on the "fairy tale" individuals/couples who
"had it all" and then downscaled their lives, a closer look at the
source materials used by most of us VSers shows that, as Debra
mentions, the ideas are far from useless even to very low-income
folks.
_Your_Money_or_Your_Life_, for instance, has been much maligned as
a book about "yuppies stuffing away cash and retiring." But if one
_reads_ the book rather than just reading _about_ the book, one finds
that it doesn't have that tone at all. In fact, most of the examples
used in the book (as well as most of the examples used in the
follow-on, _Getting_A_Life_ by Heitmiller & Blix) are of everyday
sorts of folks who have made the 9-step program work for themselves.
A few example "careers" of the folks mentioned in YMOYL include
carpenter, garbage collector, propane truck driver, and maid. Sure,
there are computer programmers and MDs mentioned as well, but that's
just to show how the program can work for anyone at any level.
I can understand how a casual reading of the book might make it
seem that reaching FI (full financial independence) is _the_ goal
of the program. But there are plenty of other goals mentioned.
And _Getting_A_Life_ goes into some detail about how even average
income levels over time can lead to FI, even if that's not your
own personal primary goal.
I guess what I'm saying here is that in one respect I think
believing that VS is just for yuppies may be one way that the media
denies the applicability of the steps to us all. And in that they're
doing us all a great disservice, since to simplify, one must ACT,
and to act, one must believe one _can_ make significant changes,
despite the income level.
Jef (who _is_ working toward FI, and is proud of it!)
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Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 12:55:10 -0700
From: "Devito, Debra {~Palo Alto}"
Message-id: <39C89E38D5AED111A50C0000F80197880A3661@rplmsem1e.pal.roche.com>
Subject: RE: Escape from Affluenza
To: "'jeff.murray@gtri.gatech.edu'"
Thanks Jeff. I agree whole-heartedy.
Debra
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MURRAY,JEFFREY P [SMTP:jm67@prism.gatech.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, July 09, 1998 12:47 PM
> To: DEBRA.DEVITO@Roche.COM
> Cc: dcfitzsimmons@ou.edu; positive-futures@igc.org
> Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
>
>
> Debra wrote:
> >Diane,
> >I agree. As a single mother I too find it frustrating to only target the
> >upper class. I know that my own life has shown much more significance
> >since practicing VS, and I've never had money!
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Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 15:47:46 -0400
From: Mark Preece
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980709154722.013b9748@pop.gate.net>
Subject: RE: Escape from Affluenza
To: sustainlifenet@webtv.net (Richard Weigel)
At 07:40 PM 7/8/98 -1000, Richard Weigel wrote:
[...]
>Personally, the sequel seemed more like "PBS" to me than the original.
>Very, I guess you'd say, slow and personal, rather than flashy as
>Affluenza was for much of its length (not that there's anything wrong
>with that ;) ).
I liked the show on the whole and my wife and I both felt somewhat inspired
by it, but it really felt a little amateurish to me in places. This is as
you say PBS, home of Nova and Frontline, and that press conference with the
Jones family and the pseudo newsreel at the beginning (where they
introduced "Affluenza" as a disease) really struck me as sort of
sophomoric, both in writing and in production values. More like their
children's shows. Anyway, I only mention these nits because of your comment
about it being very "PBS" -- on the whole, thumbs up.
Peace,
Mark.
Mark Preece
mailto:mwp@gate.net
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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:59:41 EDT
From: KathyCS@aol.com
Message-ID: <8064014.35a5212e@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
To anyone who wants to know how important Iowa Public television found "Escape
from Affluenza" to be, it aired at 3 am this morning and that's the only
showing as far as I can tell.
Kathy
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Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 17:38:02 -0700
From: "Arnie P. Anfinson"
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980709112701.007357ac@pop.seanet.com>
Subject: Re: Significance of Affluenza
To: ryuuka@wcinet.net (Mr. Sparkle), positive-futures@igc.org
Carol Billings from McK, CA asked -
"So Arnie, which star were you?"
Carol -
I'm hesitant about telling this "to the world" since some of you might have
an image of me that I come far from measuring up to physically - all you
really know about me is through reading my (usually) carefully thought out
ideas/philosophies ... but here goes:
I'm the thin, white haired/white bearded guy sitting on the sofa next to
another oldie, Fern. Our group got more time on ESCAPE than on AFFLUENZA
but I STILL didn't get a speaking part ... and my phone hasn't been
ringing off the hook from Hollywood -- anyhow, I'd turn them down because
"I have enough"! :-)
"Possessions, outward success, publicity, luxury--to me these have
always been contemptible. I believe that a simple and unassuming manner
of life is best for everyone, best for both the body and the mind."
Albert Einstein
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Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 21:11:09 -0700
From: "Arnie P. Anfinson"
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980709183206.0073fe44@pop.seanet.com>
Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
To: KathyCS@aol.com
At 03:59 PM 7/9/98 EDT, KathyCS@aol.com wrote:
>To anyone who wants to know how important Iowa Public television found "Escape
>from Affluenza" to be, it aired at 3 am this morning and that's the only
>showing as far as I can tell.
>
>Kathy
Have you talked to anyone at your PB station? Perhaps that might alert
them to what we WANT. Hope you taped it and will show it to the multitudes!
Arnie in Seattle (where we could see it many times and/or tape it.
"Possessions, outward success, publicity, luxury--to me these have
always been contemptible. I believe that a simple and unassuming manner
of life is best for everyone, best for both the body and the mind."
Albert Einstein
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Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 21:32:24 -0400
From: "Mike Nowak"
Message-Id: <199807100131.VAA09241@runningman.rs.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
To: Tom Gray , positive-futures@igc.org
>I saw "Escape From Affluenza" last night and thought it was really well
>done - both entertaining and informative. However, I did think that it
>focused a little too much on people who 'had it all' and gave it all up
>for a VS lifestyle (e.g. the Microsoft employee and the six-figure
>personnel administrator)instead of people who started from little or
>nothing. Did anyone else have the same reaction?
A few of us watched it at work and someone made the comment, Ah you just
need to inherit stuff (couches, farms, etc.) from your parents or
grandparents. I wanted to see the inside of that one fellow's house boat.
I was interested to see Ms. Andrews since we're going to start working on
her book in our simplicity group.
I missed the Ad Buster ads too. I enjoyed those in the original version. I
was glad this one had less of a focus on the Christian groups and it was fun
to see the black sheep daughter who brought McDonald's home!
............................................................................
Mike Nowak ICQ# 6738626
The University of Michigan mnowak@umich.edu
Health Media Research Lab http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mnowak/
............................................................................
"You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when.
You can decide how you're going to live now." - Joan Baez
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 02:50:09 -0400
From: Laughlin
Message-ID: <35A5B9A0.7DDF@bellsouth.net>
References: <8064014.35a5212e@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
KathyCS@aol.com wrote:
>
> To anyone who wants to know how important Iowa Public television found "Escape
> from Affluenza" to be, it aired at 3 am this morning and that's the only
> showing as far as I can tell.
>
> Kathy
Consider yourself lucky. I called both of our local (South Florida) PBS
stations when I couldn't find it on the schedule. One sounded eager to
please, but said that the other got the rights to air it since it had
shown the initial Affluenza show. The one with the rights to air it
said they weren't going to be showing it. Two stations and no airing!
I can order the tape, but actual airing would reach many more people.
If I do order the tape I will donate it to the library, after showing it
myself, in hopes that more people will see it.
Betty
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Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 18:48:17 -1000 (HST)
From: sustainlifenet@webtv.net (Richard Weigel)
Message-ID: <13673-35A59D11-3985@mailtod-141.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
Subject: RE: Escape from Affluenza
To: DEBRA.DEVITO@roche.com (Devito, Debra {~Palo Alto})
I too come from what should be called a "working class consciousness",
and have never made it into the middle class mass of American Society
(nor had any interest to!). My father toiled long and hard in Akron to
put tires on the vehicles of The American Dream, and while we were never
close to wealth, we were never deprived of anything necessary.
I would just like to point out how distorted our entire Western (and
northern) perspective is. The average annual income for the total
population on Earth is just about 2 thousand dollars US.
Now try saying you aren't in the "upper class".
Aloha,
Rich
//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\
One of the banks in Hawaii has the motto "We say 'Yes' to you", meaning
"We are eager for your money".
Robert Aitken Roshi, from Entering the Realm of Reality: Toward
Dhammic Societies
\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\//
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 09:24:23 -0700
From: "Devito, Debra {~Palo Alto}"
Message-id: <39C89E38D5AED111A50C0000F80197880A365B@rplmsem1e.pal.roche.com>
Subject: RE: Escape from Affluenza
To: "'Diane Fitzsimmons'"
Diane,
I agree. As a single mother I too find it frustrating to only target the
upper class. I know that my own life has shown much more significance
since practicing VS, and I've never had money!
I think it would be very advantagous to introduce the ideas behind VS to
all class structures not as a "fad" for the well to do enviro wannabes,
but as a way of life for all.
Debra
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Diane Fitzsimmons [SMTP:dcfitzsimmons@ou.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, July 09, 1998 6:52 AM
> To: positive-futures@igc.org
> Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
>
> In response to Jim's comments, I agree totally. I did not see "Escape
> from Affluenza" (little league game, instead!), but his observation
> has been mine as well in most of the media coverage I've seen on VS.
> I come from a blue-collar background in the lower class. ...
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:01:07 -0700
From: Diane Fitzsimmons
Message-ID: <35A61EA3.566B@ou.edu>
Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
Right on target, Richard! Even we blue-collar types are wealthy beyond
the wildest dreams of most of the world. That is something I keep trying
to explain to my children when simplicity/frugality gets too much for
them -- virtually everyone in America is "upper class" compared to many
parts of the world. (And actually they take my preaching pretty well!)
Of course, we hear a lot about hunger and human rights abuses -- but
something that really bothers me that many don't know about is the lack
of access to clean, safe water. And then I hear people griping because
they can't water the lawn due to mandatory water rationing during our
hot summers.
Diane
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:55:58 -0600
From: "R C Herman"
Message-ID: <003801bdac12$da06a7e0$42f8a8ce@rherman>
Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
To:
Richard brings up an essential point that seems lost on those of us who
feel deprived if we are unable to pony up 40 grand for an SUV. Almost
everyone in the USA enjoys a level of security and comfort (affluence?)
beyond the wildest dreams of 99% of the humans who've every walked on Earth.
Our desire for (inferred as need for) more, more, more is taken as a
given - and the engine of capital growth - by the powers that be. Media
advertising primes the pump of avarice and subtly - or overtly -
disenfranchizes those of us (nearly everyone) who don't stack up to the
idealized models they present us.
For this reason it seems wise to avoid or minimize one's exposure (esp.
one's kids' exposure) to this phenomenon. For most of us it's unrealistic to
expect to shield our kids (and ourselves) from all of it, but a neat trick
is to imagine, when exposed to a slick commercial or print ad, a room full
of strung-out, nervous, chain-smoking "creative" people in a N.Y. ad agency
desperately trying to put a seductive ad campaign together to sell us crap
we don't need -so they don't lose their jobs. It's like imagining the
Emperor without his new clothes...
Bob Herman
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Weigel
To: Devito, Debra {~Palo Alto}
Date: Friday, July 10, 1998 4:28 AM
Subject: RE: Escape from Affluenza
I would just like to point out how distorted our entire Western (and
northern) perspective is. The average annual income for the total
population on Earth is just about 2 thousand dollars US.
Now try saying you aren't in the "upper class".
Aloha,
Rich
//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\
One of the banks in Hawaii has the motto "We say 'Yes' to you", meaning
"We are eager for your money".
Robert Aitken Roshi, from Entering the Realm of Reality:
Toward Dhammic Societies
\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\//
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:21:31 -0700
From: "Devito, Debra {~Palo Alto}"
Message-id: <39C89E38D5AED111A50C0000F80197880A3662@rplmsem1e.pal.roche.com>
Subject: RE: Escape from Affluenza
To: "'gthomas@acad.suffolk.edu'"
Glynys,
Forgive my ignorance, but what newletters are you referring to, and
where can I find them?
If it helped you to understand, perhaps it would do the same for me.
Debra
California
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gthomas@acad.suffolk.edu [SMTP:gthomas@acad.suffolk.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, July 09, 1998 9:14 AM
> To: Tom Gray
> Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
>
> On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, Tom Gray wrote:
>
> > From: Scheffler_Jim/vt_state_dec_airpoll@qtm.anr.state.vt.us
> > Date: Wed, 8 Jul 98 14:40:03 -0400Message-Id:
> > Subject: Escape From Affluenza
> > To: positive-futures@igc.org
> >
> > I saw "Escape From Affluenza" last night and thought it was really well
> > done - both entertaining and informative. However, I did think that it
> > focused a little too much on people who 'had it all' and gave it all up
> > for a VS lifestyle (e.g. the Microsoft employee and the six-figure
> > personnel administrator)instead of people who started from little or
> > nothing. Did anyone else have the same reaction?
> >
> I also had this reaction, not for the first time, as some of the books
> pertinent to VS also seem to have been written by reformed fast-trackers.
> It mainly makes me wonder if it takes having been wealthy to get
> anywhere with this financial independence thing. But, I just keep plugging.
>
> I think you're right about the public relations problem. I read Your
> Money or Your Life in 1992 and really didn't relate to it, except for
> the money saving tips chapter. It wasn't until I read Amy Dacyacyn's
> books/newsletter that the whole concept of simplifying and becoming
> financially indpendent seemed accessible and she writes from an
> average working class viewpoint.
> ...
> Glynys
> Boston
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:38:12 -0700
From: "Devito, Debra {~Palo Alto}"
Message-id: <39C89E38D5AED111A50C0000F80197880A3664@rplmsem1e.pal.roche.com>
Subject: RE: Escape from Affluenza
To: "'KathyCS@aol.com'"
How very sad Kathy. Have you checked out the web site for Affluenza?
Does Iowa have a high consumerism problem? I have never been there and
am unfamiliar with anything relating to it.
Debra
> -----Original Message-----
> From: KathyCS@aol.com [SMTP:KathyCS@aol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 09, 1998 1:00 PM
> Cc: positive-futures@igc.org
> Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
>
> To anyone who wants to know how important Iowa Public television found
> "Escape from Affluenza" to be, it aired at 3 am this morning and that's the
> only showing as far as I can tell.
>
> Kathy
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:21:40 -0700
From: "Arnie P. Anfinson"
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980710110350.006a7204@pop.seanet.com>
Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
To: Diane Fitzsimmons , positive-futures@igc.org
Have any of you seen the Audebon Society's documentary, SEX, LIES and HOLES
IN THE SKY? It's two to three years old, possibly more. It is an excellent
example of a comparison between life of people in the "First world" and the
"Third world". It compares the lives of two familes on two of the largest
islands on earth - Manhattan and Madagaskar. Two outstanding differences
between the two islands' that caught my attention were: a) the 6
(surviving) children in Madagaskar appeared to be very happy as they helped
their father in the fields and b) their country had no word for `garbage'.
Perhaps in some ways THEY are RICHER than we are? They have the JOY of
contributing - having a purpose.
Alan Durning clearly points out that we (in the West/North) are the WEALTHY.
Arnie
At 07:01 AM 7/10/98 -0700, Diane Fitzsimmons wrote:
>Right on target, Richard! Even we blue-collar types are wealthy beyond
>the wildest dreams of most of the world. That is something I keep trying
>to explain to my children when simplicity/frugality gets too much for
>them -- virtually everyone in America is "upper class" compared to many
>parts of the world. (And actually they take my preaching pretty well!)
> Of course, we hear a lot about hunger and human rights abuses -- but
>something that really bothers me that many don't know about is the lack
>of access to clean, safe water. And then I hear people griping because
>they can't water the lawn due to mandatory water rationing during our
>hot summers.
>
>Diane
>
>
"Possessions, outward success, publicity, luxury--to me these have
always been contemptible. I believe that a simple and unassuming manner
of life is best for everyone, best for both the body and the mind."
Albert Einstein
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:59:38 -0700
From: Cecile Mills
In-Reply-To: <35A4CB11.AFB@ou.edu>
Message-Id:
Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
Diane Fitzsimmons wrote:
>Of course, let me stress that I am not talking about the truly
>impoverished, those practicing "involuntary simplicity." All people
>deserve decent, safe housing; adequate, nutritious diets; and access to
>good health care, transportation, meaningful work and education.
As someone who has also "been fortunate enough to experience life at most
economic levels" as KC wrote, I participate at several
levels of experience here. Now I am living on a meager income, going
backwards economically. Many of the people I interact with, also disabled,
talk with me about housing problems--this is our biggest fear.
People with the capacity to get jobs, keep jobs, and put money into
retirement funds may not fully understand how very important housing
security is to a person's sanity and well-being. Without that simple
security, we low income poeple spend an inordinate amount of time seeking
housing in safer neighborhoods, with better landlord management, with a
lease--these are difficult to get on limited incomes.
Safe housing means the person feels safe, too. Without the protection of an
economic blanket, we don't feel safe, those of us on *involuntary*
simplicity.
Housing costs for us often take much more than the 25% to 33% of income
figured by the government as reasonable. This squeezes all those other
factors--
"adequate, nutritious diets; and access to good health care,
transportation, meaningful work and education"--sometimes into oblivion.
Of these, meaningful work rates closest to the top to me, but each of the
others is a struggle on limited income. I cannot explain well how difficult
it is for many disabled people to find work of any kind--let alone adequate
and safe food.
So, the reason I'm *talking* about this is simple: you articulate people of
this list, concerned about consumption, can help revaluing your lives by
taking the time to give support to those with lives of *involuntary
simplicity*.
If you care to do this directly, visit or call your local Volunteer Bureau
and find someone to interact with. Indirectly, write your elected officials
in support of funding for low-income housing for disabled people in your
community.
Taking a half an hour to do this (or 10 minutes via email) can perhaps
create the ripple effect needed. As more and more people become disabled
from cancer, chemical sensitivities, and pesticide reactions from their
previous employment, for example, our communities will need to deal with
this issue. You can help ensure it will be humanely and compassionately.
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 17:00:56 -0400
From: Mike Warren
In-Reply-To: <003801bdac12$da06a7e0$42f8a8ce@rherman>
Message-Id:
Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
To:
At 10:55 AM -0400 7/10/1998, R C Herman wrote:
> Richard brings up an essential point that seems lost on those of us who
>feel deprived if we are unable to pony up 40 grand for an SUV. Almost
>everyone in the USA enjoys a level of security and comfort (affluence?)
>beyond the wildest dreams of 99% of the humans who've every walked on Earth.
Whoa, Bob, we speak English here ; it took me a while to figure out that
SUV stood for Sport Utility Vehicle! I agree with you and Richard.
Yesterday I wrote and trashed a long response on rich versus poor
sentiments. I wrote the response because I feel strongly that antagonism
between haves and haves-not is counter-productive and plain wrong for the
very reason you and Richard stated -- we are all affluent by most standards
-- the differences between us are minor in the big scheme of things. I
trashed it because I knew the posters didn't intend to foster antagonism
but are only conditioned to feel it.
> Our desire for (inferred as need for) more, more, more is taken as a
>given - and the engine of capital growth - by the powers that be.
Powers that be? I don't think the powers that be are pulling our strings.
I used to rail against the Captains of Industry (I still like the ring of
that phrase ) and the Elites, but no more. I don't believe the 'powers
that be' sit around and plan ways to cripple the planet and our tomorrow in
order to squeeze out an extra billion bucks today. They are just like us,
responding to something that is inside us all, no matter how enlightened we
think we are -- ENVY -- with the big difference that their response has
relatively greater potential for damage.
Envy is the fuel that our
consumer culture runs on. Focusing on the differences between rich and
poor only makes things worse because the natural tendency is to wish to
close the gap between us and the richer people or at least to mask the
differences by adopting some of the trappings of their wealth, if only in
very small ways. The powers that be do the same thing among their peers or
"betters", witness the importance of small market share changes and the
herd mentality in corporate mergers and acquisitions. They're just like
us; they see the CEO of a rival company on the cover of Forbes and say,
Jesus I want to be like him! I could sure use that salary package and wow
look at the view from his corner office! I know I probably couldn't fill
his shoes but if I wear a tie like his, maybe I'll *feel* like him
(subliminally speaking).
Yesterday, when I was pondering KC's history (really interesting, you've
sure been through a lot, I look forward to reading your book, don't give up
on it) and thinking about the six-figure salary of the doctor in Escape
from Affluenza, I recalled Parade magazine's annual salary issue and
thought to myself that was the single, most vile mainstream annual survey
every published. Do they still publish it? The front cover was plastered
with seductive pictures, salaries and occupations of a dozen or more
people, lots more inside the article itself. Tell me the truth, when you
saw those pictures on Sunday morning did you think of love for fellow man
or was there a twinge of envy? Gee, if I had done things a little
differently, I could be making *that* much money and drive a cool car like
the one in the background!
I agree with others that the term Voluntary Simplicity has problems. We
need a better term that explains what we're doing in modern terms. For me
simplicity has two sides: 1) an esthetic that equates with elegance, peace
of mind, and 2) a conscious effort to minimize my effect on the planet. I
like the idea of building a sustainable future but I can't get my arms
around it
Pardon the rant and half-baked theories
---
Mike Warren
Sine Nomine Farm
Tobaccoville, NC
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 18:45:09 EDT
From: Jppk85west@aol.com
Message-ID: <1697ac34.35a69976@aol.com>
Subject: Escape from Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
I don't know if there is anyone from the Chicago IL. area on the list, but I
contacted our PBS station via e-mail about when and if they would be showing
Escape from Affluenza. They sent me a reply that they would be showing the
program, but not until sometime in the fall Sept. or Oct. when they were
through with their rerun period. So, we must wait patiently I guess. In the
mean time I am enjoying reading all of your reviews.
Pam in Illinois
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:43:41 EDT
From: MsKCCat@aol.com
Message-ID:
Subject: A sustanable life 2 was: Escape from Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
In a message dated 7/10/98 6:02:30 PM EDT, seaseal@got.net writes:
<< So, the reason I'm *talking* about this is simple: you articulate people of
this list, concerned about consumption, can help revaluing your lives by
taking the time to give support to those with lives of *involuntary
simplicity*. >>
Ok, so I have listed the problems. (part 1 )
Now what I have personally done to effect a change (part 2):
When I was in high school, I was part of a sit-in protesting racial bias
against people with dark skin tones (at the time I thought I was 100%
Caucasian)
Soon after my first incidence of homelessness, I got into a subsidized apt
complex AKA the Projects. We had a tenant group. I joined and was active (at
age 21).
I became a vegetarian in 1996 because killing animals seemed like such a crime
to me.
I became a mental health advocate in 1991, after I figured the system out. I
taught people their rights, investigated and resolved complaints with them,
volunteered on several committees and chaired a couple of Board of Directors.
Was a catalyst in changing the conditions in the state hospitals, group homes,
sheltered workshops, and emergency rooms. I was paid to do individual
advocacy from 1994 (at $80/week),1995-96 (at $600/m). the systems stuff was
volunteer work.
I recently volunteered to help rewrite Amtrak's ADA training manual for their
staff. For the first time, psychiatric disabilities are included in the
training.
I have personally created the materials and trained 50 peer educators, who in
turn have trained others, in topics such as self-esteem, communication skills,
negotiating the system, mental health law and more.
I have recently been told that the ripple effect totals 5,000 people.
I have spoken at many many hearings, including the Center for Mental Health
Services, the original funding stream of MHO. I spoke about the barriers we
face. I will be pursuing a national survey to be used to change the current
laws.
I recently was asked by former clients to help them expand a food pantry. I
spent Thurs. afternoon on my knees, bagging bulk bagels and folding boxes.
I will also help them with their business plans, as they hope to be able to
provide jobs to our peer group.
And finally, I have truly lived my values, always aware of what I have that is
important, and what I am denied by sheer circumstance of birth. I have lost
much because of my convictions, but the opportunity costs of ignoring my heart
(and calling) are too great for me to back down.
KC (who wants to publicly thank Cecile for helping her - a true peer :))
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Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 00:22:19 EDT
From: Jppk85west@aol.com
Message-ID:
Subject: Re:Escape from Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
Margaret, thank you so much, you were right it is listed to air here on Wed.
July 15th. I have the magazine and didn't think to look for it because I was
taking the stations word for it that they would not air till fall. Well, I'm
just glad they are, but I don't see Affluenza listed with it.
Pam in Illinois
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:02:50 EDT
From: MsKCCat@aol.com
Message-ID: <74d51e5f.35a6b9bc@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170
In a message dated 7/10/98 8:38:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mwarren@netunlimited.net writes:
<< I agree with others that the term Voluntary Simplicity has problems. We
need a better term that explains what we're doing in modern terms. >>
How about "sustainable living" for the term? IMHO opinion, both those "rich
elite" and those "involuntary simplicity" lifestyles are not sustainable,
either on the micro or macro level. We humans need lifestyles that give life,
not take from life.
KC (you all on the list will get advance notice of my book :))
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:15:26 EDT
From: MsKCCat@aol.com
Message-ID: <803275fe.35a6ae9f@aol.com>
Subject: Re: a sustainable life 1:was Escape from Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
In a message dated 7/10/98 6:02:30 PM EDT, seaseal@got.net writes:
<< Housing costs for us often take much more than the 25% to 33% of income
figured by the government as reasonable. This squeezes all those other
factors-- "adequate, nutritious diets; and access to good health care,
transportation, meaningful work and education"--sometimes into oblivion. >>
Well, said, Cecile!
A footnote (and somewhat long explanation of our reality):
People can receive Social Security Disability payments from two funding
streams: SSI, or SSDI.
SSI is for folks with limited or no work history. In NY this amount is
$580/m.
SSDI is for folks who worked recently. It is based on average wage. I am on
SSDI and receive $485/m.
If you get SSI, you automatically receive Food Stamps and Medicaid, which will
pay all health related expenses, including eye care and supplies,
prescriptions, and transportation to and from health appointments.
If you get SSDI, and wait two years, you can buy (yes, BUY) Medicare for $45
deducted from your monthly check. This has yearly deductible, 20% CO-payment
per visit, 50% mental health payment, no eye supplies, no transporation,pay
first day hospital costs and no have prescriptions. Also, until recently, no
diabetic test supplies. SSDI folks can also get Food Stamps, in 1994, I got
$72/month.
Folks on SSI can usually get HUD assistance, but the waiting lists are long,
the rules stringent and the locations not "nice" or safe. Folks on SSDI may
apply for HUD if they had no substantial income or assets. If you do get HUD
you pay 1/3 of rent and HUD pays rest.
Both groups can get HEAP assistance for heating costs, providing you fill out
detailed forms listing every asset (including, TV, radio, microwaves,
car,rings(yes ,wedding/engagement),furniture, clothing, everything you own).
Depending on your income and fuel source, the dollar amount varies. In 1992,
I was heating with oil and got 2 tankfuls, enough for 4 winter months if I
kept it at 55.
You can work on both SSDI, and SSI. The rules are different for each. SSI
folks are exempt for first $65, then lose 1 for every 2 earned. Other
benefits also decline. If you volunteer more than 4 hours or so a week,
someone usually decides you could work and a disability review is triggered.
SSDI folks can earn $200 gross before any one is interested. This is "gainful
and substantial employment." Then you are monitored. If you go over $500/m
gross you enter a trial work period for 9 months. If you continue to earn a
minimum of $500/m you get 3 more checks. Then no more. You live on your
wages. So if you are making $600 gross, you get $500 net here in NYS, but
lose other benefits, and have to reapply. If you lose your job within 36
months you can go back on SSDI as long as you don't earn over $499.99 gross/m.
There are many more complicated maneuvers we who are disabled must go thru
just to get the basics of life.
Please, follow Cecile's suggestion and personally reach out. Yes, I realize
that we seem rich according to other countries standards, but then again, is
the average rent there $450/m, or 110% of pay? And if it is, do MOST people
pay only a fraction of their income for basics, while some struggle?
Some things for us all to ponder. Part 2 in what I personally have done to
effect change.
KC (who is technically homeless, cuz she is staying with a friend til Fall,
and is wondering how she can get a safe convenient apartment when she gets so
little in SSDI, $2,000 a year below poverty level in fact, and who although
she knows all the ropes, and has taught hundreds of others, still feels
victimized by a society who just doesn't GET IT)
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Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 09:46:03 -0700
From: Kelly Carpenter
Message-ID: <35A796CB.C14F43D5@mediaone.net>
Subject: [Fwd: a sustainable life 1:was Escape from Affluenza]
To: positive-futures@igc.org
In Broward County, Florida where I live (Fort Lauderdale), the poverty level
for a single person household is $16,900. In the city I work for, entry level positions are as low as $12,000 annually. People in my department (public
works and utilities) may start as low as $7.22 per hour. Of course, $7.22 is
below the poverty level for a single person household. The city does ante-up for HealthMaint.ceOrg. (as it is), employee must pay for dependent coverage.
All this said, I was struck by the writings of KC (my initials, too!). The
problem of people living below the poverty level is very widespread in the United States. The example I gave is for one person.....so many of the folks paid this wage are married with kids or supporting an extended family. They are virtually forced to have two jobs and thus no time for family or education or growth or rest in order to care for their families.
My contribution was smaller (much smaller than, say, Minneapolis or Milwaukee or some place in Montana) than those successfully working on "living wage" proposals at the local government level. In any case, I made the arguments and achieved a small success in the union negotiations (from the management side) to increase our wages to a living wage level. So we have our individual small successes. A part of me would like to be in Flint....
Kelly Carpenter
MsKCCat@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 7/10/98 6:02:30 PM EDT, seaseal@got.net writes:
>
> << Housing costs for us often take much more than the 25% to 33% of income
> figured by the government as reasonable. This squeezes all those other
> factors-- "adequate, nutritious diets; and access to good health care,
> transportation, meaningful work and education"--sometimes into oblivion. >>
>
> Well, said, Cecile!
> A footnote (and somewhat long explanation of our reality):
> People can receive Social Security Disability payments from two funding
> streams: SSI, or SSDI. ...
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Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 14:33:18 -0700
From: "Arnie P. Anfinson"
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980711143138.00685d78@pop.seanet.com>
Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
To: Mike Warren ,
On Fri, 10 Jul 1998 17:00:56 -0400
Mike Warren wrote:
"we are all affluent by most standards
-- the differences between us are minor in the big scheme of things."
I have much difficulty seeing the differences as "minor in the big scheme
of things." I don't see differences as "minor" when many people, even in
the USA, have major difficulty getting shelter and _essential_ food when
others have SO MUCH MORE than they need. And we are not "all affluent by
most standards"; MOST of us are "affluent by most standards" but there are
a generally-hidden minority whom we hear little about ... for reasons that
I think `most of us' are aware. ... A bit like the story we are asked to
believe -- that "the economy" is: good, excellent, best in xx years, etc.
I agree ( I think!) that "antagonism between haves and have-nots is
counter-productive"
... but when it is apparent that the haves HAVE most of the power, it sure
feels good to be critical of their "greed". I even dream about a revolt
against `their' system:-) ! My personal action is to BUY VERY LITTLE, and
avoid buying NEW things to the extent that some see my actions (or
non-actions) as self-sacrifice :-) ! It does not feel that way to me. It
gives me a warm feeling knowing that I am doing my _little bit_ to save the
global environment.
"They are just like us, responding to something that is inside us all, no
matter how enlightened we think we are -- ENVY -- with the big difference
that their response has relatively greater potential for damage. Envy is
the fuel that our consumer culture runs on."
"I don't believe the powers that be sit around and plan ways to cripple the
planet and our tomorrow in order to squeeze out an extra billion bucks today."
Of course the `powers that be' do not want to "cripple the Planet'. After
all, they're passengers on it too. But their emphasis is NOT so much on
`what's good for the planet' as "WHAT'S GOOD FOR THE BOTTOM LINE."
As to the matter of envy, you may envy the wealthy for all the STUFF
(including money/power) they have; I certainly DON'T! Two TV anchors a
little while ago talked about how a guy was mistaken for Bill Gates and one
of the anchors made the flip comment: "Who WOULDN'T want to be mistaken for
Gates?" (She seemed to be serious.)
I've commented more than once that I know that I have ENOUGH and that I
wouldn't WANT any more. I've thought more about _my_ truth in this. One
situation in which it crossed my mind that it would have been good to have
unlimited funds was when I was in hospital followed by a "Care (recovery)
Center". I could then have HIRED my favorite kinds of care givers -- and
fired those that didn't suit me!
But we could have this with a GOOD care for everyone, with a National
Health System, one in which we have a CHOICE of the kinds of care we want
-- Natural or Wholistic rather than (or in addition to) the ANTIBIOTIC,
PILL DRIVEN allopathic approach. (In my hospital/recovery stay I was
administered intervenous anti-biotics for nearly three weeks before `they'
decided that I had a "multi resistant staph aureus" infection! -so of
course it was up to MY OWN IMMUNE SYSTEM to heal me!
So AGAIN, my umpteenth plug for YMoYL and other simplicity approaches --
discover HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH by taking a close, _personal inventory_. None
of us will arrive at the SAME amount; some (maybe many) will discover that
their "enough" will be more than they now have. Overall I would suspect
that a majority COULD decide to trade MORE income for more of the important
things in life (fill in your own examples.)
Arnie
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Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 14:12:49 -1000 (HST)
From: sustainlifenet@webtv.net (Richard Weigel)
Message-ID: <15764-35A7FF81-6284@mailtod-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
To: arniea@arniea.seanet.com (Arnie P. Anfinson)
Aloha la (G'day),
I had resisted mentioning this earlier for reasons unknown (laziness
perhaps) but this seems as good a time as any, before I sign off and use
up more of the world's dwindling petrochemical resources to jet to
Seattle.
I wrote last year for a local newspaper on the subject of building a
consciousness to serve sustainable consumption patterns, that the
members of the voluntary simplicity movement, while entering the
"movement" for various personal reasons were unified on one point --
that they are in the vanguard of a global campaign set on employing the
most radical and subversive anti-commercialist strategy yet devised --
personal responsibility.
I honestly believe that this strategy is the most proficient method for
effecting a liberation of individuals from the binding dependency on
institutions like wage slavery and disempowerment in the political
economy. At the same time it promises a pathway to healing our earth
and communities from the culture of exploitative relationships from
which we also must seek liberation. Poverty, disease, pollution,
racism, inequalities of all kinds are bound up within the Western (or is
it human) belief in the need to "get ahead" through competing against
and defeating the weaker "opponent", be it at work, on the playing
field, or within the mythic economic creation known as "free markets".
When we look at the many costs of our getting ahead, we can easily
consider an alternative paradigm of a co-operative and democratic
community-based web of economic systems and relationships.
My thanks to Vicki Robin and Joe Dominguez for helping me see more
clearly the connection all of our seemingly unconnected social problems
have to overconsumption, and my Buddhist teachers for showing me how
exploitation is the thread holding together the web of suffering for all
of us natural beings.
Me ke aloha pumehana. A hui hou.
Rich
//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\
One of the banks in Hawaii has the motto "We say 'Yes' to you", meaning
"We are eager for your money".
Robert Aitken Roshi, from Entering the Realm of Reality:
Toward Dhammic Societies
\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\//
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Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 08:38:50 +0000
From: "Renee Blanchette"
Message-Id: <199807121233.IAA10635@mercury.mv.net>
Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
To: , Mike Warren
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10)
Mike wrote:
> Whoa, Bob, we speak English here it took me a while to figure out that
> SUV stood for Sport Utility Vehicle! I agree with you and Richard.
> Yesterday I wrote and trashed a long response on rich versus poor
> sentiments. I wrote the response because I feel strongly that antagonism
> between haves and haves-not is counter-productive and plain wrong for the
> very reason you and Richard stated -- we are all affluent by most standards
> -- the differences between us are minor in the big scheme of things. I
> trashed it because I knew the posters didn't intend to foster antagonism
> but are only conditioned to feel it.
Thank you, Mike, for a well thought out post.
All the name calling and labeling of the past few days was making me
very uncomfortable. IMO, one of the foundations of VS is the word
community.........and the root of that word is UNITY.
Blessings to ALL
Renee
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Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 10:40:21 -0600
From: "R C Herman"
Message-ID: <004101bdadb4$13921060$43f8a8ce@rherman>
Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
To: "Positive Futures"
Mike: Let me emphasize that when I used the term "the powers that be" I
wasn't refering to "captains of industry," the "Elite" or our elected
officials.
I believe our system has evolved into an ipso facto plutocracy - or more
accurately, a luchrocracy - in which money itself makes the rules. It is the
capital (not the capitol) that dictates policy. The continued health of
unbridled capitalism is predicated on keeping us all desirous of having more
goods and services.
No, I DON'T envy those with more money and trinkets than I have. I
strive to be more like those whose values, as exercised in daily life,
transcend the materialistic.
I also realize that if a significant portion of the population felt this
way, the capital-driven system would undergo great trauma. For this reason,
it is perceived as in the best interests of those whose wellbeing is closely
tied to the system to protect and nurture the consumer mentality. I am not
making this an us vs them, have/have not dichotomy. People are people, and
it is ludicrous for those who consider themselves the regents of The One
True Way to castigate and villainize those who are trying to do the best
they can and happen to respect a different One True Way. My interest is not
in divisiveness, nor would I present an aggressive posture in any dialogue
with those who don't (yet?) see things as Ghandi did: "We have enough for
our needs, but not for our greeds."
Since this newsgroup seems made up of folks who already espouse VS, I
didn't expect to raise any hackles by pointing out that the system is:
CAPITALISM.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Warren <>
Date: Friday, July 10, 1998 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
>Yesterday I wrote and trashed a long response on rich versus poor
>sentiments. I wrote the response because I feel strongly that antagonism
>between haves and haves-not is counter-productive and plain wrong for the
>very reason you and Richard stated -- we are all affluent by most standards
>-- the differences between us are minor in the big scheme of things. I
>trashed it because I knew the posters didn't intend to foster antagonism
>but are only conditioned to feel it.
>
>Powers that be? I don't think the powers that be are pulling our strings.
>I used to rail against the Captains of Industry (I still like the ring of
>that phrase ) and the Elites, but no more. I don't believe the powers
>that be sit around and plan ways to cripple the planet ...
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Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 12:41:35 -0700
From: Cecile Mills
In-Reply-To:
Message-Id:
Subject: Re: Significance of Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
jcryer@atl.mindspring.com (Janice Ryer) wrote:
>My big challenge now is to convince my children to join me as I attempt to
>jump off the six-lane consumption expressway to the little garden path of
>simplicity. Wish me luck (and please pass along any tips for a single
>parent dealing with teenagers!)
I used to teach 6th grade so I have several tips. I would start with a
recycling program and work from there to consumerism and lifestyle.
First, set up places to put recycled stuff, sorted is best. Some good ideas
are those crate boxes or canvas hampers (I like these; you can find them in
the bathwares part of a store or look for things at garage sales to make
your purchase even lower on the chain).
After establishing a place to put things, then spend the weeks (and it will
take weeks) necessary to train people in your family to change their
behavior. One stimulus is to take the kid(s) with you when you recycle and
portion out the money you receive. Here where I live, the garbage company
takes recycled paper, metal cans, glass, and plastics but you can also
drive it into town for the cash back.
Other rewards can be devised--put one kid in charge of one or two types of
recycling and another the others. Let them inventory the house for what
can be Pre-cycled--take them shopping with you so they can evaluate doing
purchases based on final outcome of the boxes, bottles, cans, extra
packaging, and so on. Let them inventory what can (and isn't yet) recycled
in your house. Help them with this --setting up a database on the
computer--and then help them turn it in for school credit.
Take some time to talk to your kids' teachers and classmates by
volunteering at their schools to explain what you are doing and why. Ask
local recycling businesses if they have a presentation for schools and
invite them along or help them to make one up if they don't, again using
your kids' input from their inventories and research. Find other families
to work with on this project.
Help your kids write up a journal of their experiences with beginning the
recycling program at your home. Let the less print literate speak into a
tape recorder and put that on the computer also. Get some videoing done of
how they pre-cycle, reduce, reuse, and recycle.
Used clothing might never fly with teenagers but they may be willing to
recycle their clothing, unused toys and sporting equipment, old books, and
more. Take them to Second Hand and thrift stores and garage sales,
discussing how reducing consumption is key to the whole issue. Make
shopping decisions based on family discussions on recycling and New v. Used
before hitting them with doing without--using the library rather than
purchasing a book,for example, or renting equipment rather than purchasing.
Make a web site for this project (GeoCities has free web space and good
instructions) and share with the world what you are doing and how you are
doing it. Include the kids' written, taped, video'd stuff. Look on the web
for other sites to link too with resources and more ideas.
Invite neighbors to share their ideas about how to do this, too. Finding
others to work with may be the stimulus and source of support you need to
follow through. And, let us know how it's going.
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Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 22:25:23 -0700
From: seaseal
In-Reply-To: <803275fe.35a6ae9f@aol.com>
Message-Id:
Subject: Re: a sustainable life 1:was Escape from Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
MsKCCat@aol.com wrote:
>SSI is for folks with limited or no work history. In NY this amount is
>$580/m. SSDI is for folks who worked recently. It is based on average
>wage. I am on SSDI and receive $485/m.
>If you get SSI, you automatically receive Food Stamps and Medicaid,
>which will pay all health related expenses, including eye care and
>supplies, prescriptions, and transportation to and from
>health appointments.
Wow, it is different in CA for these *benefits*. The monthly amount is
$650.40 for SSI, but you do not get Food Stamps (which maybe adds up to
about $185 worth). You also get MediCal health coverage (which shrinks
daily as doctors refuse to take MediCal as it doesn't reimburse them enough
they say) so you receive decidedly limited choices on the quality and
quantity of health care.
>If you get SSDI, and wait two years, you can buy (yes, BUY) Medicare for $45
I hope that Medicare gives good coverage--to take 11% of someone's income
for *insurance* seems a bit steep.
>Folks on SSI can usually get HUD assistance, but the waiting lists are long,
>the rules stringent and the locations not "nice" or safe. Folks on SSDI may
>apply for HUD if they had no substantial income or assets. If you do get HUD
>you pay 1/3 of rent and HUD pays rest.
Here the waiting lists are seven years long, with no preferential housing
given to those with incapacitating disease or poor life expectancy. This
means some people I've heard of who had spent their last dime on medical
care are now homeless and jobless (and it's almost impossible to get a job
once you become homeless--no place to shower, keep clothing pressed, and it
goes on and on).
The seven years means, in other words, if you sign up now (with your
poverty level checked and affirmed and all), you will be eligible to go
look in July of 2005 for landlords that will accept the rules Housing
applies to those who rent and pay with Section 8 funds (only about one in
six will accept Section 8 around here) so good luck on that search.
The main reason so few landlords accept Section 8 seems to be the
rules--can't discriminate and must have up-to-code wiring, bathroom(s),
kitchen fixtures and appliances. So, while theoretically houses for rent in
any neighborhood *should* accept Section 8, it does seem those in really
poor neighborhoods are more likely to do so.
Since this *benefit* doesn't get distributed evenly to low income people,
but only those who acted seven or more years ago, I view HUD money as
welfare for the rich landlords rather than an assistance to the poor. It
guarantees a yearly income to the landlord with a free mediation service if
tenant problems arise. The Section 8 tenants I've met live in fear of
getting evicted and so never report problems (one hasn't had hot water for
seven months).
>Both groups can get HEAP assistance for heating costs, providing you fill out
>detailed forms listing every asset (including, TV, radio, microwaves,
>car, rings(yes,wedding/engagement), furniture, clothing, everything you own).
>Depending on your income and fuel source, the dollar amount varies. In 1992,
>I was heating with oil and got 2 tankfuls, enough for 4 winter months if I
>kept it at 55.
California's HEAP will only go towards electricity and gas (for all low
income customers, not just SSI, SSDI) when you buy them from the same
company. When you purchase propane gas from a private provider, for
example, you don't get assistance for that. I don't recall the form being
quite that comprehensive but income was verified via Income Tax forms.
Well, Ms. you are a great resource who can explain things well. Certainly,
the message comes out loud and clear--you poor person, don't try to
improve yourself by getting a job because you'll have all your support cut
from below you, too frightening to think about, might as well not try.
Very demoralizing to read how that is. Especialling the bit about
volunteering--who makes up these rules, anyway?
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Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:07:18 -0700
From: seaseal
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980711143138.00685d78@pop.seanet.com>
Message-Id:
Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
"Arnie P. Anfinson" wrote:
>A bit like the story we are asked to
>believe -- that "the economy" is: good, excellent, best in xx years, etc.
Whoa, Arnie, now you're really telling it! Many people actually believe
those economic pronouncements. You're like the kid I heard at the beach the
other day explaining to another, "There is no Santa Claus."
>I agree ( I think!) that "antagonism between haves and have-nots is
>counter-productive"
>... but when it is apparent that the haves HAVE most of the power, it sure
>feels good to be critical of their "greed".
I agree with Mike Warren that divisiveness is counterproductive but I agree
with you also that we must continue to remark on the chasm between the
haves and the don't haves especially in countries where the difference is
so huge and so blatant.(Bill Gates is a wonderful example, and I'm proud of
Seattle for producing someone so obvious--he provides the rationale for the
best lesson we could have for setting the CEO's salary as a factor of the
lowest paid person in the company--say 70 times or 150 times rather than
the 15,000 times it is now.)
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Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:38:43 -0400
From: Mike Warren
In-Reply-To:
Message-Id:
References: <3.0.32.19980711143138.00685d78@pop.seanet.com>
Subject: Re: Escape from Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
At 2:07 AM -0400 7/13/1998, seaseal wrote:
>I agree with Mike Warren that divisiveness is counterproductive but I agree
>with you also that we must continue to remark on the chasm between the
>haves and the don't haves especially in countries where the difference is
>so huge and so blatant.(Bill Gates is a wonderful example, and I'm proud of
>Seattle for producing someone so obvious--he provides the rationale for the
>best lesson we could have for setting the CEO's salary as a factor of the
>lowest paid person in the company--say 70 times or 150 times rather than
>the 15,000 times it is now.)
On the one hand, I agree with you we should continue to remark the chasm
between the top person in a company and the lowest man. But I'd prefer the
focus be on the stockholder meetings rather than the media circus. There
have been a few cases where large retirement funds have asked companies to
remove a CEO or lower his or her benefit package, I'd like to see more of
that.
On the other hand, remarking isn't going to help many people in the
underclass. There just aren't that many CEO's to punish. And I can't see
where focusing on their wealth is going to help individuals or give the
planet a chance at a positive future. What if every person at Microsoft
made the same salary? What if every person in every company in America
made the same salary? Would that make a big difference for our future?
And a lot of good remarking the chasm has done so far! Bill Gates grows
richer and richer, the media celebrate his wealth, "poor" people keep
buying his products even when there are alternative rich people to make
richer , and Everyman secretly hopes one day to take his place.
How else can you explain the success of lotteries? Step right up and buy a
ticket, you *too* can be Bill Gates! A sucker born every minute! Rich
individuals (not just CEO's but movie stars, sports heroes, etc) have been
given mythical personae in our money-worshipping culture, everytime we
dismiss them as rich and powerful we make them even more rich and powerful
-- and untouchable. Then, when they go too far and take a big tumble,
we're glued to the television sets to see how the horrible tragedy plays
out. I confess I revel in every teeny tiny setback Bill Gates receives --
I secretly rejoiced when the anarchists slammed a pie in his face -- but in
the end it's just another diversion.
---
Mike Warren
Sine Nomine Farm
Tobaccoville, NC
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Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:24:32 EDT
From: ElkPeople@aol.com
Message-ID: <84f43c54.35aa7b11@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Significance of Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
Janice... I am also struggling with changing long-standing lifestyles - my own
and my family's. Right now, I am concentrating on my own behavior, and
explaining changes to the family when it seems like I will not be preaching
(like when they ask why I do certain things). Even though I am a whole-
hearted supporter of less consumerism, simplicity, etc. - I find myself
"slipping" back to old habits from time to time. (Maybe I am not as strong as
others, but that's me)
I find it has been helpful to keep a mini-journal of quotes or other
information that is meaningful to me.. I carry it in my purse, and enjoy
reading it whenever... waiting in line, break at work, whatever. It helps
give me focus, and remember to enjoy my choices, not feel deprived. I will
share it when I can with my family and others.
2 recent additions generated from this list are: "Corporate sugar water"
referring to soda.... I love this phrase... it has helped me resist the
temptation for "just one" can of soda when I'm having a long - or frustrating
- day at work (this can be a very strongg temptation for me !)
The other is a line from "More-with-Less Cookbook" by Doris Janzen Longacre
(yes, Diane, you got her name right - many thanks !)..... the line is "freedom
from society as master"... that sums up a lot of truth, and a lot of feelings.
(p.s. - very good book)
Good luck with your journey ! Marcia.
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Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:48:57 -0700
From: "Devito, Debra {~Palo Alto}"
Message-id: <39C89E38D5AED111A50C0000F80197880A366E@rplmsem1e.pal.roche.com>
Subject: RE: Escape from Affluenza
To: "'Arnie P. Anfinson'"
> -----Original Message-----
>> On Fri, 10 Jul 1998 17:00:56 -0400 Mike Warren wrote:
>> "we are all affluent by most standards
>> -- the differences between us are minor in the big scheme of things."
>
At 14:33 11/07/98 -0700, Arnie P. Anfinson wrote:
> I have much difficulty seeing the differences as "minor in the
> big scheme of things." I don't see differences as "minor" when
> many people, even in the USA, have major difficulty getting shelter
> and _essential_ food when others have SO MUCH MORE than they need.
> And we are not "all affluent by most standards"; MOST of us are
> "affluent by most standards" but ...
Arnie,
The argument for or against antagonism is an age old discussion. Since
the beginning of time there have always been have and have nots.
However, not until the most recent history have the "have nots" had as
much power and voice as they now do. I believe this is due to the
"haves" finally coming to terms with and understanding what those of us
who are the "have nots" and are environmentally conscious have been
saying all these years.
Unfortunately, this realization may come in the form of it being
fashionable these days to be earth conscious, but hey, if it gets them
to open there eyes and see what it is that big business (especially the
semiconductor and software companies) have done, then so be it. Perhaps
during there "fashion stay" they will gain some real education.
Debra
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Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:57:03 EDT
From: MsKCCat@aol.com
Message-ID: <91031067.35aa82b0@aol.com>
Subject: Re: a sustainable life 1:was Escape from Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
In a message dated 7/13/98 2:48:58 AM EDT, seaseal@got.net writes:
<< So, while theoretically houses for rent in any neighborhood *should*
accept Section 8, it does seem those in really poor neighborhoods are more
likely to do so. >>
Here, total rent is capped at $485 plus utilities. We are a BIG college town
with Cornell and Ithaca College. Because most of the college kids are not
local and don't live on campus, either, there is a lot of people looking for
housing at any given time. A lot of the nice 3-4 bedroom places are rented by
the room, not building, at about $350/m per person. No way a low income
person can compete. These are also the places close to services, of course,
so most of us find cheaper housing on the outskirts, where the buses run every
three hours or so, and take about an hour to get to the downtown where the
public servants work, or we are so far out the bus is not practical and spend
our money on car insurance and gas to run "junker" cars.
The welfare-to-work program here has figured out that due to housing, lack of
transportation is a barrier to employment. So they are in the talking stages
of doing some better coordination with the buses and employers. They are also
looking for a grant that would assist people in rural areas to buy more
dependable cars.
I find it interesting that "employment" rather than "quality of life" was the
impetus for this incentive.
KC (who now wonders why California is glamorized in the media)
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Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:17:55 -0700
From: Cecile Mills
In-Reply-To: <91031067.35aa82b0@aol.com>
Message-Id:
Subject: Re: a sustainable life 1:was Escape from Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
MsKCCat@aol.com wrote:
> A lot of the nice 3-4 bedroom places are rented by
>the room, not building, at about $350/m per person. No way a low income
>person can compete.
This is true where I live also -- far more farm workers rather than college
students, although we are about 35 minutes from Cal State at Monterey Bay
on one side and UC Santa Cruz on the other. Lots of poor people living in
garages and illegal units attached in the back yard.
Wonder if this is going on everywhere?
Saw an ad in a window for a room near UC for $750 a month. A room!
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Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:19:37 -0500
From: "Linda B. See"
In-reply-to: <39C89E38D5AED111A50C0000F80197880A366E@rplmsem1e.pal.roche.com>
Message-ID: <27E50745402@mail.owens.cc.oh.us>
Organization: Owens Community College
Subject: RE: Escape from Affluenza
At 08:48 13/07/98 -0700, Debra Devito wrote:
> Since the beginning of time there have always been have and have nots.
Dear Debra and others,
I wanted to point out that this statement isn't really true. Social
stratification is only typical of agrarian and industrial societies,
and therefore doesn't go back much more than 10,000 years in human
history. That's a long time, of course, but nonetheless, human
societies existed for a very long time before that without anything
like true stratification.
The point is that there is nothing "natural" about group inequality.
In human history, it's a relatively recent idea developed within
recent types of social orders. We can and have structured our lives
and societies otherwise.
FWIW,
linda
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Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:21:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Trouble
Message-Id: <199807150021.UAA07751@smtp2.erols.com>
Subject: RE: Escape from Affluenza
To: lsee@owens.cc.oh.us
>At 08:48 13/07/98 -0700, Debra wrote:
>> Since the beginning of time there have always been have and have nots.
>
At 01:19 PM 7/14/98 -0500, Linda See wrote:
>Dear Debra and others,
>I wanted to point out that this statement isn't really true. Social
>stratification is only typical of agrarian and industrial societies,
>and therefore doesn't go back much more than 10,000 years ...
For about 99% of human history, we lived in cooperative arrangements without hierarchies. It is only in very recent history that the advent of competitive arrangements and implementation of hierarchies have occurred resulting in the extreme stratification we see. Currently societal arrangements are actually quite unnatural given human history.
Even today, in the midst of this newly created stratification, certain kinds of values (cooperative economic systems, collective arrangements, sustainability and mutual aid) are practiced daily and examples exist in our recent history, be they the anarchists of Spain in the 1930s, indigenous populations in the Amazon, worker collectives, co-ops, intentional communities, organizations such as Food Not Bombs, etc.
Ah, there's always hope...
- Tom
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Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:35:40 -0700
From: "Devito, Debra {~Palo Alto}"
Message-id: <39C89E38D5AED111A50C0000F80197880A3685@rplmsem1e.pal.roche.com>
Subject: RE: Escape from Affluenza
To: "'Tom Trouble'"
Tom,
In no way did I intend for my statement to be taken as it being
"natural" for this type of behavior to exist. I was only suggesting that
because it has existed for such a long period of time (yes, 10,000 years
is a long time) that perhaps energies can be placed in a more productive
and educational area.
These are human facts that we are all aware of (unfortunately), yet to
change them, like anything else, requires patience, kindness and a
willingness to share experiences in a manner which does not judge.
Debra
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Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 12:10:14 -0700
From: Cecile Mills
In-Reply-To:
Message-Id:
References: <27E50745402@mail.owens.cc.oh.us>
<39C89E38D5AED111A50C0000F80197880A366E@rplmsem1e.pal.roche.com>
Subject: RE: Escape from Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
Mike Warren wrote:
>I've
>often wondered if agrarian societies were a result of social stratification
>rather than the cause, that is, someone needs to hunt and gather for those
>who don't or can't. When there are a certain number priests, doctors,
>leaders and elders, it could become more practical to put down roots and
>raise food.
The changes in cultures can be (and have been) examined through studies of
existing so-called *hunting and gathering* cultures. We know the types of
social groups and can extrapolate to the past.
As noted, the agrarian base of social grouping, with a hierarchical power
structure is only about 10,000 years old. Even within the agrarian
cultures, societies existed with less social stratification and more equal
distribution of power than we see today.
Some people envision the Hunter/Gatherers as men in tiger skins killing
large beasts while the women sat in the caves cooking something. This is
probably the result of male-dominated anthropomorphic anthropology and it
is changing as observers remove gender bias from their remarks.
You can now read about how women did much of the food acquisition, that
rather than large animals, the mainstay of the diet was plant-based with
small rodents and insects also eaten. The vision of social stratification
(men hunting;women at home) is now one of more egalitarian cooperative
hunting and gathering done by both sexes but probably more by women. Social
stratification was (and is today) almost non-existant, with people of
importance serving temporarily (no life-long status change, in other words).
These people may have been permanently based but living in three or four
places during the year, traveling to meet with other tribes, to gather
specific foods (pine nuts in the summer, berries in the late summer--many
tribal cultures recognize five seasons), and to allow their occupation site
to regrow and refurbish itself.
Some cultures even saved seeds and planted so favorite foods would be
available. The big change was the storing of food in centralized places,
necessitating full-time occupation and the concept of ownership. Tribal
peoples have much different concepts of ownership than the 10,000 year old
agrarian Revolution.
In the books Ishmael and The Story of B, author Daniel Quinn calls our
treatment of the pre-ownership life as *The Great Forgetting* in that we
cannot conceive of society where everything is honored as being spiritual
(containing god or spirit) and everything is shared.
To address your idea that specialization occurred at the time of the
Agricultural Revolution, we know it is much older than that. To use a
familiar example, tribal peoples in pre-Columbian American (as today) had
specialized jobs that people did during certain stages of their lives. Some
retained that job by dint of talent for long periods of time. This did not
mean their societies were not egalitarian--they were. The issues of
ownership of the job title were different.
It has never been practical to *put down roots and raise food*. That
assumes the ownership and creates a stratified society--someone now has to
do the dirty work all the time, instead of those tasks being shared.
Someone has to work long hours so that the priests may spend time in the
temple. (Contrast this to tribal life where the *priest* is someone who is
only the priest during ceremonies and fully participates in the social
activities of the culture at other times. Also compare tribal *work*--that
necessary to continue the group's life--everyone doing a few hours of
*work* such as food acquisition a day is about average--to *work* in a post
Agricultural Revolution society--most work 8-12 hours a day for their food
and housing and social life, --and some don't contribute at all but merely
take.
The putting down roots had another consequence--people became an economic
value and they gained worth in the power shift---as slave workers and as
armies. This meant that food storage enabled population growth at much
greater rates than tribal societies did. Thus, we have the situation today
where we keep saying *birth control* is the answer but in fact it's
something much more basic--food control. As long as there is food supply,
the population will rise to meet it. Tribal societies' populations were so
directly related to food supply that the food supply was the birth
control--just as it is in animal populations worldwide.
Going to live in a tribal way might prove too difficult to us, but several books come to mind--science fiction, of course: Ecotopia by Ernest Callenbach is one of the best, The Woman's Gate (?) by Doris Lessing (?) is another.
Cecile
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From ???@??? Fri Jul 17 08:35:00 1998
To: "Positive Futures"
From: David MacClement
Subject: living in a tribal way ... but several books .. science fiction
In-Reply-To:
References: <27E50745402@mail.owens.cc.oh.us> <39C89E38D5AED111A50C0000F80197880A366E@rplmsem1e.pal.roche.com>
At 12:10 15/07/98 -0700, Cecile Mills wrote:
> ... compare tribal *work*--that
>necessary to continue the group's life--everyone doing a few hours of
>*work* such as food acquisition a day is about average--to *work* in a post
>Agricultural Revolution society-- most work 8-12 hours a day for their food
>and housing and social life, -- and some don't contribute at all but merely
>take.
>
> ... Tribal societies' populations were so
>directly related to food supply that the food supply was the birth
>control -- just as it is in animal populations worldwide.
>
>Going to live in a tribal way might prove too difficult to us, but several
>books come to mind--science fiction, of course: Ecotopia by Ernest
>Callenbach is one of the best, The Woman's Gate (?) by Doris Lessing (?) is
>another.
>
>
** I remember the second as The Women's Gate, by Sheri S. Tepper.
^^^^^ ^ ^^^^^^
It was the main book that got my teen-age daughter interested in both science fiction and anthropology.
David.
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Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:53:10 -0500
From: "Linda B. See"
In-reply-to:
Message-ID: <297E13D76DB@mail.owens.cc.oh.us>
Organization: Owens Community College
References: <27E50745402@mail.owens.cc.oh.us>
Subject: RE: Escape from Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
> ..... Does structure imply some kind of stratification, at least
>in the long run? I've often wondered if agrarian societies were a
>result of social stratification rather than the cause.......
>
Dear Mike and all,
Very interesting, IMO. Even simple agricultural societies do seem to
develop some inequality, although it's minimal compared to true
agrarians. (I can provide more description if you care.)
But traditional hunters and gatherers generally place a high value on
sharing resources, including food, with all members of the group.
People do take pride in their personal productivity and contribution,
but boasting and egotism are condemned and feared as destructive to
the group. (See, for example, Lee's classic article "Eating
Christmas in the Kalahari" - it's fun)
For nomadic peoples with simple technology, these values are just
practical. No hunter can bring down a big animal every day, and when
he does, its meat might as well be shared, because freezers are rare,
especially in the Kalahari. :) With the sharing ethic, everybody
eats and famine is rare.
These societies have been called "the first affluent societies" (I
forget by whom right now.) They are the original human social form
and they are quite egalitarian, certainly in comparison to
later types of societies.
One key factor in the success of these societies appears to be
population size. They are always small, with deliberately restricted
fertility. True stratification, with its institutionalization of
privilege for some and rip-off for others, appears to develop with
larger populations and the production of surpluses, i.e. large-scale
agriculture.
All this is, of course, FWIW. I apologize for the academic tone - an
occupational hazard. But I guess I do think that awareness of human
history in the long perspective is relevant to some discussions here.
It opens up a wider vista of possibilities for what societies can be
and, in fact, have been.
Enjoyable exchange. Thank you.
linda
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Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:19:26 -0400
From: Mike Warren
In-Reply-To:
Message-Id:
References:
<27E50745402@mail.owens.cc.oh.us>
<39C89E38D5AED111A50C0000F80197880A366E@rplmsem1e.pal.roche.com>
Subject: RE: Escape from Affluenza
To: positive-futures@igc.org
At 3:10 PM -0400 7/15/1998, Cecile Mills wrote:
>To address your idea that specialization occurred at the time of the
>Agricultural Revolution, we know it is much older than that.
Cecile, you and I agree on this point. I was suggesting that
stratification must have been around long before the agricultural
revolution, that agriculture was a result of it.
>It has never been practical to *put down roots and raise food*. That >assumes the ownership and creates a stratified society -- someone now has
>to do the dirty work all the time, instead of those tasks being shared.
The question is practical for whom? Practical for those in charge.
I believe it is natural for a group of equal people to evolve into more
complicated relationships, especially as the group multiplies and comes
into contact with other groups or other adversities. Perhaps the term
specialization is better than stratification. As people develop skills and
abilities they would tend to specialize, eventually some skills would gain
a higher value over others.
I have difficulty grasping idealized social systems, either future systems
(Marxism, utopias, The Second Coming) or past systems (tribal life).
Perhaps I'm unable to forget what I know of human nature and other animal
species.
I wonder if it's safe to extrapolate millions of years of pre-history based
on a few groups who managed to survive major social developments. Could
there be aspects specific to their culture or environment that could
explalin why they remained egalitarian/cooperative while other groups
evolved into more complicated societies?
Once last comment. I'm not an anthropologist, obviously, and worry about
using terms that may have special meanings specific to a field of study.
Does stratification necessarily imply slavery? If the answer is yes, I
promise never to bring up the subject again, really, Scout's honor
---
Mike Warren
Sine Nomine Farm
Tobaccoville, NC
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