This interview was taken from the premier issue of Anthropomorphic (January 1993).
In #3, I put together a picture page on GG & the Murder Junkies in Detroit, 6/6/93, three weeks before he died (see epilogue). I've finally managed to scan some photos from the show, so check 'em out. I also have a GG Allin trade list for those who would like to swap stuff.
Love him or hate him (though you'd be more provoked to do the latter), GG Allin is like Madonna - no matter what you think personally of him, you can't ignore the fact that he's still here, doing what he wants. And for those of us in Michigan, we're sharing (at this time) the same state with the artist best known for this rather extreme nature and cathartic concert etiquette - defecation, urination, exhibitionism and various objects like microphones and drumsticks inserted into his rectum are among his performance techniques.
On the back of the Murder Junkies seven-inch, he wears a hat that says "Michigan Sucks." Can you blame him? After all, he's spent time in Adrian for allegedly beating up an Ann Arbor woman named "Leslie," and now he's in the neighboring Jackson State Prison for what authorities deem to be grounds for multiple parole violations. But he's scheduled for release March 11, and it's only a matter of time before he either ends up in another correctional facility, or actually fulfills his promise of suicide on the stage.
In late September 1992, I contacted GG through the mail, asking him if he would grant me a phone interview, and he said yes. I was in a Magazine/Feature Writing class at Wayne State University, and our major assignment was to write a 2,000-word profile on some kind of celebrity or prominent figure in the area. Well, Jackson isn't too far from Detroit, so I figured what the heck - why not choose a real celebrity of sorts. Boy, was my instructor astounded when I told her I had to do my interview via phone - because my subject was doing time!
Well, I did the paper, got an A in the class (chalk one up for the underground), and now I present excerpts from the interview cassette.
Douglas Levy
WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU IN FOR THIS TIME?
Well, they said my lyrics and my stage performance were a violation of my parole. I actually sent away for my parole report just to see exactly how they stated it. It's actually printed in black and white; "Due to the extreme nature of Mr. Allin's antics on stage in Florida and Texas, we feel that at this point in time, incarceration (to) the max(ium) is necessary." Now I mean, come on! Fucking over a year for two stage shows?!? People don't believe me when I tell 'em; they think it's gotta be something else (I did) and it's in fucking black and white! I mean, what more do I have to do? Basically, it's a violation of my constitutional rights, and what I'm doing is I'm filling a lawsuit (against) the parole board for the State of Michigan. It's already being processed and I'm not gonna file it until I get out. Michigan's such a fucking police state anyway. Most states you get some sort of two-for-one, three-for-one. If you go to prison in Florida, Texas, Chicago, New York, and you get sentenced for two years, you probably end up doing nine months to a year. If you do two years in Michigan, you end up doing six. It doesn't make too much sense but that's the way it is.
HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU BEEN ARRESTED?
Oh geez, it's countless. I've been arrested for so many things. The list is endless.
YOU WERE ON "GERALDO" EARLIER THIS YEAR, AND FROM WHAT I SAW, THE CENSORS MUST HAVE GOTTEN PAID OVERTIME THAT DAY.
I think Geraldo was caught completely off guard; you know how those TV shows are. I don't think he realized the reality and the nature of who I was. If you look at the rest of the show, you'll see that most of the artists were trying to be acceptable and fit into social circles and what not, and I just came out and I was myself. I don't think he was ready to deal with that; I don't think most people are. They don't realize how brutally real it is until they're confronted with it and say, "Hey, this motherfucker's really like this!" When I first came out, I came out in my jockstrap and they had a fucking fit! They just went nuts; "No, no, you can't do this!" And I said, "Well, look, motherfucker, you said you wanted me on the show and you're gonna take me the way you get it." And they said, "No, no, we can't do this," so I said fuck it, put my shit on (which ended up being a pair of spandex biker shorts), and I was ready.
DO YOU THINK THAT SHOW BASTARDIZED YOU IN ANY WAY?
I think that it gave me more exposure, and I think that I said the things I had to say. I obviously used that show for my own purposes; I didn't go out there and try to pretend to be someone I wasn't. I don't think I "sold out" in any way for being on the show. I went on there, I was GG Allin, said what I had to say, and if they didn't like it, fuck 'em. Obviously they didn't like it because they kept cuttin' me off. I told the audience how I felt about them, and for the most part I didn't really give a fuck if the panel hated me or Geraldo hate me or the audience hated me - I was there as GG Allin and I didn't represent anybody there except for myself. So I thought I was the show. Unfortunately, you're right - the censors did go a little nuts.
HOW DID YOU GET INVOLVED WITH THAT SHOW?
There was an article in the New York Post - well, it all stemmed from all the press I got in Milwaukee and then when I got arrested in Florida. Geraldo contacted my record company (New Rose), my record company contacted me, and I said fuck it, let's go.
The thing is, people always think you have to sell out to be on a TV show, and for the most part that's probably true. Most bands would probably sell their fucking soul out or completely fuckin' wimp out to be on a show. If they would have set any limits in any way, I would have not done it. The fact that I could go on there and be myself, that was OK 'cause I manipulated THEM.
YEAH, IF THEY CAN PUT SKINHEADS ON, WHY NOT GG ALLIN?
Right.
LET'S GO BACK TO YOUR CAREER. YOU'VE PLAYED WITH A LOT OF BANDS - THE JABBERS, THE SCUMFUCS, ANTI-SEEN AND NOW MURDER JUNKIES. WHICH OF THEM DO YOU FEEL DID THE MOST JUSTICE IN FULLY RELAYING WHAT GG ALLIN IS ALL ABOUT?
Well, I think I have to say right now the Murder Junkies, but if you'd asked me that in 1985, I would have to say the Scumfucs. Because whatever I'm doing right now is really the most important thing that matters. The band that's playing with me at the present time is the only band that matters. Anything in the past is obviously important 'cause that('s) what got me to where I am today, but you can't take what I did 10 years ago and compare it to what I did today, but what I was doing 10 years ago mattered a whole lot. That's who I was. Every single album and every single band and every single show is an exact portrait of what was going on inside of me and outside of me at that particular time. All I can say right now the Murder Junkies are the most important thing. (But) both lyrically and musically, I think the Freaks, Faggots, Drunks and Junkies album is really a representation of who I am.
"MURDER JUNKIES," THE ALBUM, IS A VERY POWERFUL, PROBABLY MOST THOROUGH STATEMENT AND, DARE I SAY, PROFESSIONALLY SOUNDING OUT OF EVERYTHING YOU'VE EVER DONE, VERY POLITICALLY AND SOCIALLY ORIENTED.
Yeah, that wasn't necessarily intentional. I wrote the lyrics and like I say, I go in with the band and whatever happens in the studio happens. It's not like we really set anything up or have any expectations. It's like we go in, I go to the microphone and whatever comes into my mind, I go with it.
WHAT ORIGINALLY GOT YOU INTERESTED IN ROCK 'N' ROLL?
I've always thought there were too many frauds and phonies. My whole intention to get involved in music with the Jabbers was solely for revenge. I mean, we didn't set out for popularity. The whole purpose was, "Let's start a gang. We'll go in and trash all the clubs we can't stand and fuck up all the people we don't like, and just terrorize." That's why the Jabbers formed. I just wanted to keep going with it 'cause I kept getting more and more angry and I kept seeing music selling out more and more. To me it has to be who you are. When I'm on that stage, I'm the same person as I am on that stage as I am off the stage in my mind. But my whole purpose was strictly for revenge.
WHAT KIND OF CHILDHOOD DID YOU HAVE THAT WOULD GET YOU INTO THAT SORT OF THING?
It's very chaotic. I've always been able to crawl into myself. It's hard to explain; I've gone through so much shit in my childhood. I was witnessed to beatings and burnings, my father digging graves under the house, being held at gunpoint, kidnapped. But I'm not blaming anyone for who I am. If anything, I think my childhood actually made me a stronger person, much more of a warrior, because I tended to not look for relationships. I never looked for friendships; I always kinda toughed it out on my own and it made me feel hardshelled. I think inside...it just built up so much fury that I needed a release. And that release was rock 'n' roll.
I'VE READ IN A FEW ARTICLES THAT SOME THINGS INCLUDED WEARING YOUR MOTHER'S CLOTHES TO SCHOOL, BEING PICKED ON...
Well, not so much being picked on. When I got into a fight, it took 10 or 15 motherfuckers to drag me off somebody. That's how much fury I carried inside of me all the time. I was like a walking atomic bomb. (If) somebody got me and pulled the wrong triggers, I mean, I was going off. But yeah, I never wanted to fit in with the norm. I always felt some superiority over others. I just felt like I didn't belong with any of those people. So when they were going to school with their flannel shirts or whatever they were wearing that year, I chose to wear blouses and strechpants, high heels and makeup, that sort of thing. So yeah, I never had any intention of fitting in with their plan.
I'D THINK THAT MAY HAVE SKETCHED OUT EVERYTHING AFTER THAT.
Yeah, and that was such an early age. It was before it was considered cool to look like that, let's put it that way. A lot of people now I see tend to use the underground label pretty much as a stepping stone for their own capitalistic gain of commercial sell-out. Now you've got everybody trying to be a fuckin' alternative wanna-be; now that the underground is so big, everybody's jumpin' on and playing Top 40...that just fuckin' pisses me off more than you'll ever know. I've been doing this motherfuckin' shit for 15 motherfuckin' years, then you've got some motherfuckin' idiots thinking that they're like some big alternative band or something. It's all a joke.
WHEN DID YOU DECIDE THAT IT WAS THE RIGHT TIME TO DECLARE WAR ON THE UNDERGROUND?
You know, I've ALWAYS been at war with the underground. It's just that in the last few years I've see bands like GWAR, Cannibal Corpse and all these bands with fuckin' names, and they come out with all these props and fake blood and then when the show's over, they go home to their fucking suburbs, their nice cars and their pretty girlfriends and their safe lives. It's like, something just ain't fuckin' right here because the real non-conformists and the real outcasts are the people living in this situation every day. We can't put up with that kind of thing. It's time to say, hey, fuck you, we're not gonna take that anymore. I think the true GG Allin believers are the real non-conformists and if we can build enough people, then we need to create a war; we need to bring rock 'n' roll back into the danger zone. We need to find out who's for the real thing, (find out) who the frauds and the phonies are and eliminate them.
DO YOU FIND IT FLATTERING THAT BANDS LIKE BLOODY MESS & THE SKABS AND THE DWARVES FIND YOU INFLUENTIAL TOWARDS THEIR ACT?
I have no problem with people finding what I do influential. I have a big problem when people try to imitate it, because what's the sense? If you can't top me, don't try to imitate me, and you're not gonna top me 'cause there's nobody that's ever fucking come close. I've seen Blag (of the Dwarves) try to do this GG Allin thing, but not even close. I mean, to be influenced is one thing, but to imitate, forget it. You gotta be willing to go the whole fucking mile, not just half of it. You've got to be willing to go to jail; you can't just go up there, go halfway, turn around and go back. If you can't go all the way, don't even start the car.
WHEN DID YOU DECIDE THAT SUICIDE ON THE STAGE WAS NECESSARY?
People all thought it started with the (album) Suicide Sessions (1989), and that's not true. That was written because my girlfriend had tried to commit suicide and my guitar player's girlfriend tried to commit suicide at the same time, but that's not what mine was. I did a show in New York in 1989 [NOTE: This was actually the Lismar Lounge show - 05-NOV-1988 - EK], where I had done, like, tons of heroin. About 2 in the morning I got up and tumbled down a flight of stairs and broke my ribs, got on the stage and completely passed out. I was just pretty disgusted with myself at that performance. And a lot of people thought it was the classic moment. I was pretty disgusted with it because I just wanted to do better. Then I was going out to San Francisco to do a show with the Drug Whores, and that bus ride, I said, "Well, fuck it, I'm gonna kill myself, because it seems like the time. I don't wanna just get stagnating."
Then when I got arrested in 1989 by the Secret Service, it kinda opened a lot of doors for me, a lot more rage and a lot more wars and I saw it really wasn't the end. So what they had set out to do by stopping the GG Allin mission actually opened more venues for my anger and animosity, so I think their plan backfired. Don't get me wrong - I still plan on committing suicide on the stage. It's an absolute must, but I cannot and will not do it until all my battles are fought. If I was to kill myself before everything was done, then that's going to go against everything I stand for. The only reason to kill yourself is when you're in your peak, and when you've reached your peak and you've got nowhere else to go, then it's time to end it. But right now, I have too many battles.
So if people think that I'm in prison because I didn't want to kill myself, then they're absolutely wrong. Let them come in here and see how much fucking fun it is for them. It just happens that I've run into a lot of tragedies, a lot of things happened to me in the last four years. I mean, most people couldn't go through (in) 20 years of what I've been going through in the last four years. A lot of things have changed in my mind, but the bottom line is I'm gonna get out, I'm gonna continue to break through all the boundaries that people set up and even the ones that I've set up for myself, and when I continue to not be able to break through the boundaries that I've already set, then it'll be time. But until then, I'm gonna keep going.
I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE GOING TO BE GOING TO EUROPE NEXT YEAR WHEN YOU'RE RELEASED.
We're hoping, if I can get a passport.
THEN YOU'RE GONNA DO IT (COMMIT SUICIDE) WHEN YOU FEEL IT'S NECESSARY?
It'll probably still be on Halloween and it may still be next year. Actually what I'm going to do is I'm gonna make that statement when I'm released. My first plan is to make a album. My second plan is to immediately hit the road, and I plan on continuously touring. I think that, depending on the outcome of the first few tours, I'm gonna see how everything goes and then I will make (a) decision accordingly. It will definitely still happen.
WELL, BE CAREFUL AROUND MICHIGAN.
I'm actually going to say out of Michigan. Maybe forever. There is no parole to do this time, so there is an advantage this time out.
WHEN YOU FIRST WENT TO PRISON IN MICHIGAN, THAT WAS FOR ASSAULT TO THAT "LESLIE" WOMAN. WHAT HAPPENED WITH THAT?
Only Jim Beam knows for sure! (laughs) Well, I can tell you - I'm not gonna tell you exactly what happened. It was just so long ago and even that night is questionable in my mind. I just say, hey look, the bitch put herself on the GG Allin altar, followed me around like a fucking dog, she begged for me to do this, she begged for me to do that, she thought she could handle me and just like everybody else, when they get too close to me, they realize it's too motherfucking hot and they can't handle it. Everybody thinks they can handle it until they actually decide to enter my world, and when they enter my world, they realize it's not a place they want to be for a very long time.
But the thing that really bothers me is the fact that after the incident happened - whether it really happened or not is questionable in a lot of people's minds, with so many stories from so many different people - I received letters from her, stating that she still wanted to marry me, stating how much fun she had, sending me scabs in the mail, doing interviews with Boston Rock saying, "Yeah, I knew he was a dangerous man, that was the thrill of it all." All of that evidence was not even used in court. I think it goes beyond that. I think the FBI or the Secret Service just needed a state that would put me in prison, and Michigan was the scapegoat. They wanted me off the stage, they knew I was about to commit suicide, they knew I was out on a fucking rampage of terror, they knew the trouble, they knew the rock 'n' roll mission was something they weren't in control of, and I wasn't on a major label, so they couldn't tell me what to do.
I still think it boils down to, and you can believe it if you want, I think I was set up and framed. I'll always believe that because it's got to go way beyond that. I mean, I was arrested by the United States Secret Service - that's got to tell you something!
I'VE HEARD YOU SAY IN MANY SOUND BITES AND ARTICLES THAT YOUR AUDIENCE IS YOUR ENEMY, THAT THEY'RE THERE FOR YOU AND NOT YOU FOR THEM.
Absolutely. I look at the audience the way I look at the world and the way I look at society as a whole. When I walk up on that stage and I look at that group of people, they're my enemy. Basically, that's the way to weed it out. When the smoke's cleared and the broken bones are counted and the bloodshed is thick, the ones that are still intact at the end of the shows are the ones you take on as the allies, and the other ones are usually the cowards that run to the fucking police because they find themselves caught up in the real fucking brutality crossfire of a GG Allin show. You really have to look at the audience as a whole as the enemy, because if you don't, you're not really gonna find out who's there to see you for who you are and who's there just to see you as the freak. I have to make that distinction; I have to weed it out. So when the show's over, the people outside are the ones that really don't need to be there.
WHAT PROVOKES YOU TO DEFECATE AND MASTURBATE ON STAGE?
Well, the defecation is more a shared communion between souls, more of a thing of power. Like my body fluids are a communion to my people who come to see me. If people find that as offensive or if people find that as an assault, then again, fuck it, they're not a part of my ritual. But I drink blood, I drink piss, I eat shit. It's sort of a beyond-flesh thing; to me, straight intercourse can be boring. To be as close to a person's soul as you really need to be, you have to get right into the body fluids of that person. Sort of like a shared communion, a gift of power.
DO YOU FIND YOURSELF IMMUNE TO PAIN?
I have made myself immune to pain from a very early age. I've always put myself through tragic situations so when tragic situations occur, I would be ready to handle them. And that's where the self-mutilation fits in, because I'm continually tearing up my body up and it just makes me that much more powerful, it makes me that much stronger, it makes me that much better of a warrior. If you put yourself through painful, tragic situations every day of your life and if you look at every day of your life as the last day of your life, then you can face just about anything you come into contact with.
DO YOU THINK THERE'S ANY ONE SONG THAT DESCRIBES YOU FULLY?
I don't know if there's one particular song, but if you look at the Freaks, Faggots, Drunks and Junkies album and shook it up with the Murder Junkies album, you'd probably get a good idea of what goes through my head every day.
MAYBE EVEN THE SEVEN-INCH SINGLE WITH THE MURDER JUNKIES?
Yeah. That's amazing.
I UNDERSTAND YOU HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF POETRY AND SPOKEN WORD. DO YOU HAVE ANY PLANS TO PUBLISH ANY OF IT SOON?
Actually I do, but what I think we're gonna do is we're right now working on my autobiography (with Boston writer Joe Coughlin) and I think we're gonna include it at the end or weaved into the book somewhere. It will be out before the end of '93, hopefully mid '93. We're now 200 pages into it, and we're looking at about 500, and believe me, this fucking book is INTENSE. It's more than a rock 'n' roll book, it's fucking tragedy! But it's also a celebration of...you've gotta read it to believe it, and a lot of people are gonna read it and NOT believe it. There's nothing in this book that's fictional, it's all complete fact. But when you read it, you'll think, "How in the fuck can this guy still be ALIVE?!?" We've got a couple publishers interested, and we're hoping to actually put this thing out so people can read it in (mass market) book form.
JEFF KOCH ASKED THIS LAST YEAR, AND I HEARD (IT) ASKED TO YOU ON THE RE-RELEASED "YOU GIVE LOVE A BAD NAME" CD, AND I THINK IT'S MORE RELEVANT TO ASK NOW; WHY AREN'T YOU DEAD?
(sighs) I don't know, man. I guess that fire inside of me is too strong and nobody's been able to put it out; I've tried many times and I can't even do it. I think this fuckin' soul of mine is a very powerful thing. I've often told people that I think my soul outpowers my body; I think my body can't control what's inside of it sometimes. Why it can't be killed is beyond me. God knows I've done every fuckin' drug, fucked every slut, shared every needle, sucked every dick, done everything and tried to kill myself. Then I've seen motherfuckers just pass over and die and they never did ANYTHING. I dunno, I can't explain it. I guess when my soul's ready to die, it's gonna die when it's ready; I guess it ain't gonna go before that. But I guarantee you when I get outta here this time, I'm gonna put it to the test.
EPILOGUE
After I wrote the paper, I sent him a copy in prison and he wrote back saying it was cool - in a letter smeared in his own blood. (I washed my hands six or seven times after reading the letter, which I now keep in a baggie. Oh well, at least it wasn't the remains of his last meal...) Upon his release in March, Allin recorded Brutality and Bloodshed for All with his band Murder Junkies (which features his brother, Merle Allin, on bass). After hitting the road in May 1993, Allin came to Detroit for a spectacular show at the late Marquee. Three weeks later, Allin died of a drug overdose in New York City after a show at a performance art space called the Gas Station. Merle Allin and the Murder Junkies decided to continue the band. At risk of sounding like I'm eulogizing, GG Allin's death is significant because he was the last breed of punk singers who risked everything he had for his beliefs. His only goal - to die by his own hand - was cut short. When it happened to Jim Morrison, it was because he gave up; it happened to GG simply because he didn't stop.
Doug Levy
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