Shaun Ryder is a legend but his Mondays (and the other days of his week) have not been very happy. He is the man from Manchester and the man from Happy Mondays and Black Grape. After many fall-outs with family members, record labels, managers, and who knows who else, his cousin, Pete Carroll always stood by his side. Pete Carroll began the dance label Off World Sounds in Australia. He worked with Ku-ling Brothers, which is Shane Norton from Soundlab. He also worked with Stephen Mallinder from Cabaret Volataire's new project, Little Egypt. Just when people (besides his fans) were forgetting about Shaun Ryder, the movie “24 Hour Party People” refreshed everyone’s love for Manchester. Even though Shaun Ryder is a legend, his problems were massive. While he always had a drug problem, these days, his main problem was money. A dispute with his former manager froze all of his assets. He cannot collect one dollar (or pound) from any Black Grape music or Happy Mondays profit. Besides the money problem, he is not on speaking terms with his brother or the members of the Mondays or Black Grape. Even the sexy back-up singer Rowetta does not speak to him. Shaun Ryder flew out to Australia and chilled out with his cousin, Pete Carroll. Together, their love of music prevailed. They recorded the “Amateur Night In The Big Top” LP. As a group, Amateur Night In The Big Top is more of an experiment. There is nothing commercial about the album. Each song is longer than 6 minutes. As Pete Carroll and Shane made the music, Shaun Ryder basically free styled his lyrics. Every new project by Shaun Ryder has been different from the next. While there were similarities, Black Grape was very different from the music of Happy Mondays. “Amateur Night In The Big Top” is just as different. The LP is filled with stories, drug references, spoken word, some singing, and even reggae chanting. The opening track is about the customs problems the Happy Mondays had during their trip to Rio. “Long Legs” is an angry track about Ryder’s money problems. “In 1987” is a magnificent track about how the Mondays brought Ecstasy to the Hacienda. Other incredible tracks include the single “Scooter Girl”, “Monster”, and “Murder”. The street credibility, the nonsense, the drugs, the humor, and the cleverness are all maintained. This is something different. These are not tightly packaged pop songs with choruses that repeat. Once again, controversy and Shaun Ryder go hand in hand. While Black Grape’s “It’s Great When You’re Straight…Yeah” CD have picture of world famous terrorist Carlos the Jackal on the cover, “Amateur Night In The Big Top” has Hitler with clown make-up! Inside, there are other pictures of Sadaam Hussain, George Bush and others all portrayed as clowns. Central Station Design (the same crew who did Factory’s artwork and Black Grape’s artwork) was responsible. It is good to see Ryder creative again. Unfortunately, he cannot make any more money. Pete Carroll has been a true friend and family member to the man. Perhaps, he is the glue that keeps Shaun Ryder working. Shaun and Bez (the freaky dancer) are working on a project together where Bez actually sings. Fans who thought “Big Top” came from left-field may also be happy to hear that Shaun Ryder is working on another brand new project. On a beautiful Spring day in 2004, I had an in-depth conversation with Pete Carroll about Off World Sounds, Shaun Ryder, Amateur Night In The Big Top, and much more. Thank God for Pete Carroll and Off World Sounds. Without him, Shaun Ryder may not have been able to create music ever again. Hallelujah! Shaun Ryder’s Mondays may be happy once again with some help from Pete Carroll.

T.JONES: “What goes on?"
PETE CARROLL: “It's going to be a busy few months with a lot of records to get out.”

T.JONES: “You put out an album with Shaun Ryder of Happy Mondays and Black Grape called “Amateur Night In The Big Top”. How did this project come together?”
PETE CARROLL: “Shaun Ryder is my cousin, so when the Mondays world tour ended in Australia, he decided to spend time with me recuperating. I had a studio set up in my garage and when Shaun heard some of the tunes, he decided to get involved. It was very loose. There was no pressure. It was all very relaxed. Shaun hadn't written for a while and he wanted to get a few things off his chest. He also had problems with his record company to sort out. He wanted to get back to what he does best, making music and writing words.”

T.JONES: “Just to let people know, what other projects or groups did you collaborate with?”
PETE CARROLL “Done lots of electronic stuff on Offworld, working with the like of Ku-ling Brothers, which is Shane Norton from Soundlab and Stephen Mallinder from Cabaret Volataire's new project, Little Egypt from New York. Gripper from the UK. I have been working on new music by Bez and Shaun Ryder recently. Lots of other stuff plus I've got another label called littleBIGMAN records, which I started with Gaz Whelan, the drummer with Happy Mondays. I'm currently working with a band called The Panics. I've also got a hip-hop album ready which was recorded by The Panics’ 17 year old drummer.”

T.JONES: “What was the recording like for ‘Amateur Night In The Big Top’? Were there tons of drugs all around or was it more of a relaxed affair?”
PETE CARROLL: “It was very relaxed but completely mad. It took me a few months to get over the experience. I was well and truly knackered. We never got into the studio before 5am and often much later, the last session we got in the studio about 9am after a very long session, which started at midday the previous day in the pub. Shaun liked to get himself nice and chilled. So there was a lot happening. He amazes me. I could barely stand up whereas he just sat and delivered. It was a very cool time. We recorded during a hot Australian summer.”

T.JONES: “What was the creative process like? Did you write the music first and then, Shaun would do the vocals or vice versa? Or, was it done all together?”
PETE CARROLL: “Shaun would get the feel of a beat and put down a few words on a scrap of paper, so yes, he spent a lot of time getting his head into the rhythm and coming up with a few key words. Shaun is a great lyricist and it's always a treat to watch him work.”

T.JONES: “Did Shaun just freestyle the lyrics or did he write them in advance or there?”
PETE CARROLL: “He'd head into the studio with a few words but the majority of what you hear is Shaun free-styling, working and responding to a basic idea. Each song would run for about 40 minutes. It was a shame to have to cut so much away cause it was all good.”

T.JONES: “What Shaun using drugs during the recording? Which ones?”
PETE CARROLL: “Shaun's probably the best person to respond that one. It's all a blur to me.”

T.JONES: “What was it like recording in Australia? Is it different than the U.K.?”
PETE CARROLL: “We recorded in a very basic make-shift garage studio surrounded by lots of rubbish. We wanted to make a record that had no commercial considerations, that was free of the usual industry pressure and bullsh*t. So, recording in Australia was perfect. It couldn't have been done in England. It wouldn't have been allowed. There would have been too many people saying that it's not commercial enough. It was a hot Australian summer so the feeling was high.”

T.JONES: “You started Off World Sounds. Tell us about it. How did you start it?”
PETE CARROLL: “I started the label in 1996 with Stephen Mallinder, who was in Cabaret Voltaire. He'd also headed out to Australia around the same time I ventured over here so we decided the place needed a label that focused on electronic music. Plus, we wanted to release Mallinder's new project Sassi and Loco. We wanted it to look, sound, and feel like a label. I've always been interested in labels that have a culture.”

T.JONES: “How long did it take you to record ‘Amateur Night…’ LP?”
PETE CARROLL: “‘Amateur Night’ was recorded very quickly. All the vocals were done live. There were no second takes. We wanted to maintain that feel. We wanted to make a proper punk record with attitude and total honesty, keeping a very raw feel. It could have been done quicker but we only went into the studio when we felt like doing something. So, there are 8 tracks. I guess it could have been done in just over a week if we'd got our sh*t together but things occasionally got in the way. We needed to occasionally drink.”

T.JONES: “What is your favorite song on the album?”
PETE CARROLL: “I think ‘Long Legs’ is my favorite track. It's Shaun telling the world he ain't going to pay for nothing no more. It's about all the legal bullsh*t that has tied Shaun down for the past few years. It's an intense piece of music. It's also funny. There's an anger on that track that is very powerful. I also love ‘Clowns’, which is about the idiots that tend to control the music industry. Shaun wrote that one after a phone call with someone from the industry. It's a great lyric.”

T.JONES: “What song took you the longest to do? Why?
PETE CARROLL: “I think probably 'Long Legs’ may have taken the longest but they were all rattled off very quickly really.”

T.JONES: “What song took you the shortest to do? Why?
PETE CARROLL: “‘Scooter Girl’ was really quick. It was just an easy track to build. It was the only track that was really written as a proper song.”

T.JONES: “What is the meaning behind the name ‘Amateur Night In The Big Top’?”
PETE CARROLL: “It was a comment on the music industry and also world politics. That’s why we have used images of Bush and Saddam. We constantly get abused and f*cked over by all these people. It's always the ordinary person who suffers.”

T.JONES: “Your brother does artwork for Central Station Design. How was he involved in this project?”
PETE CARROLL: “My brothers have always done all artwork associated with Happy Mondays and Black Grape so it was natural that they should do the cover. They also produced the video clip for ‘Scooter Girl’.”

T.JONES: “Which instruments are your favorites?”
PETE CARROLL: “I'm into the idea of using anything that creates the right sound. It was great putting the pedal Steel guitar on ‘Long Legs’. It gave it another dimension.”

T.JONES: “When did you first begin making music? What was it like?”
PETE CARROLL: “I've been into music since I first heard the Beatles in 1961. Since I left school, I've always worked in music. It means everything.”

T.JONES: “How were you making a living before or outside music?”
PETE CARROLL: “Apart from doing some art and design, I've always done music.”

T.JONES: “Do you DJ or do live shows? How has your live show evolved? What is your favorite part of your live show?”
PETE CARROLL: “I do a regular radio show called ‘Soulsides’, where I play a lot of Northern soul, Stax, Motown, and anything else I consider has the necessary ingredients. We're hoping to take Shaun Ryder and Amateur Night In The Big Top out live.”

T.JONES: “Who are your biggest influences?”
PETE CARROLL: “My biggest influences include Marvin Gaye, Curtis Mayfield, Sex Pistols, The Clash, Bob Dylan, Miles Davis, Monk, The Staple Singers, Joy Division, Bob Marley, and Lee Perry.”

T.JONES: “Abortion. Pro-life or pro-choice?”
PETE CARROLL: “Pro-choice. The fundamentalist right wing that’s emerging in America is very scary. We got to fight for our rights. It's time to stand up.”

T.JONES: “Death penalty. For or against?”
PETE CARROLL: “I'm against it.”

T.JONES: “Where were you on the September 11th terrorist attack? How did you deal with it? How has it affected the music industry?”
PETE CARROLL: “Stephen Mallinder called me and just said ‘Turn the TV on!’ I was shocked. I think it affected everything. It made us face the reality that anything could happen.”

T.JONES: “How do you feel about the US involvement in the Middle East?”
PETE CARROLL: “I believe we are making huge mistakes in the Middle East.”

T.JONES: “What are the 3 best things about living in Australia?”
PETE CARROLL: “It's pretty relaxed over here. The beaches are great but I never use them. I don't like the sand or the heat, but the oceans are great. It's a unique landscape, verybeautiful. The downside is the treatment of the Aboriginal people, who have suffered since the early settlement of Europeans.”

T.JONES: “Word association. I am going to say the name of a group or artist or person and you say the first word that pops into your head. So, if I said ‘Public Enemy’, you may say ‘Revolution’ or ‘Fight The Power’. If I said ‘The Beatles’, you may say ‘Revolver’ or ‘Yoko Ono’. Okay?”

T.JONES: “The Stone Roses.”
PETE CARROLL: “Spike Island.”

T.JONES: “The Fall.”
PETE CARROLL: “Cigarettes and alcohol.”

T.JONES: “Eminem.”
PETE CARROLL: “Elton John.”

T.JONES: “Happy Mondays.”
PETE CARROLL: “Pills and Thrills.”

T.JONES: “Black Grape.”
PETE CARROLL: “Another round of pills and thrills.”

T.JONES: “Joy Division.”
PETE CARROLL: “New Order.”

T.JONES: “Severed Heads.”
PETE CARROLL: “Itchee & Scratchee.”

T.JONES: “The Roots.”
PETE CARROLL: “Alex Haley.”

T.JONES: “Jamiroqaui.”
PETE CARROLL: “Silly synthetic hats.”

T.JONES: “Massive Attack.”
PETE CARROLL: “Iraq.”

T.JONES: “Gil-Scott Heron.”
PETE CARROLL: “Fight for your rights.”

T.JONES: “George Bush.”
PETE CARROLL: “Twat.”

T.JONES: “Who would you like to work with in the future who you haven’t worked with yet?”
PETE CARROLL: “John Cooper Clarke, who is a great Mancunian poet.”

T.JONES: “What is the biggest mistake you have made in your career?”
PETE CARROLL: “It took me a while to develop a hefty dose of cynicism when it comes to the music industry, but I feel I have always stood by a bunch of values and believed in doing the right thing. So, I feel ok with my karma. Not too many mistakes but we all get f*cked over now and then, but you've just got to get on with it.”

T.JONES: “What advice would you give to an up and coming producer?”
PETE CARROLL: “Never be afraid to try something new. The safe approach rarely produces anything interesting though it can produce hits unfortunately. I'd rather listen to music that doesn't stem from those considerations.”

T.JONES: “What do you think music needs these days? What is it lacking?”
PETE CARROLL: “The music industry needs a good kick up the arse. We've been dominated by bullsh*t marketing and a cynical approach to music making. It's all about making money.”

T.JONES: “What work are you most proud of?”
PETE CARROLL: “‘Amateur Night In The Big Top’ because it's a real record. I'm very proud of it and have massive respect for Shaun. Most artists would not have taken such a risk. We made a record that had no commercial intent.”

T.JONES: “Production-wise, what is the best produced album you have ever heard?”
PETE CARROLL: “Marvin Gaye ‘Whats going on’.”

T.JONES: “What CDs or LPs have been in your CD player or on your turntable recently?”
PETE CARROLL: “Lots of Soul and Hip-hop including records by Marvin Gaye, Sam Cooke's SAR label box set, Irma Thomas, Bobby Wommack, Harry J All Stars, Dr John's Gris Gris, The Roots, Lee Perry.”

T.JONES: “Favorite drug?”
PETE CARROLL: “Guinness.”

T.JONES: “Are you for the legalization of marijuana?"
PETE CARROLL: “Yes, of course - I believe the law is completely insane.”

T.JONES: “Favorite movies?”
PETE CARROLL: “’The Usual Suspects’, ‘Withnail & I’, ‘Nil By mouth’, ‘Sexy Beast’, ‘The Godfather’, ‘Taxi Driver’, and ‘Best In Show’.”

T.JONES: “What did you think of the film ’24 Hour Party People’? Was it realistic? Was it a good interpretation of the events?”
PETE CARROLL: “When Shaun was staying with me, the director called and asked him to get involved but he refused after he'd read the script cause it wasn't factual enough. He feels that a lot of the story still can't really be told but I think it captures the time and place. And, it's funny. Shaun went to see it and said it was complete bollocks but he enjoyed it. It looked really cool. My brother Pat did all the graphics.”

T.JONES: “Is Shaun still not on good terms with his brother?”
PETE CARROLL: “No, he doesn't see him.”

T.JONES: “Is it true that Shaun cannot collect any money from the profits gained on ‘Amateur Night In The Big Top’?”
PETE CARROLL: “Shaun cannot earn any money whatsoever. So, he cannot earn money from any record including Happy Mondays, Black Grape and Amateur Night In The Big Top. He lives off the help of friends. It’s an appalling situation. He's been in and out of courts fighting for years. The law is completely f*cked. The guy who is behind all this only managed him for a very short time.”

T.JONES: “What do you do when you are incredibly stressed out?”
PETE CARROLL: “Settle down with a large number, or several, and 10 pints of Guinness – perfectly chilled.”

T.JONES: “What are some major misconceptions that people have of you, Off World Sounds, or Amateur Night In The Big Top?”
PETE CARROLL: “‘Amateur Night’ is an album you either understand or you hate. The album had its fair share of haters. We never set out to make a commercial record. Sure, Shaun swears a lot and there are no hit single but, f*ck that. People wanted us to fit an expectation whereas we wanted to make something completely different to anything Shaun had previously done. I still think we made the right move. It's always nice to have a few people who respond with a lot of anger. We wanted to piss those people off. Let them settle down to Coldplay.”

T.JONES: “What are some of your favorite Shaun Ryder songs?”
PETE CARROLL: “‘Kinky Afro’, ‘Loose Fit’, ‘Hallelujah’, ‘Dennis & Lois’, ‘Bobs Yer Uncle’, ‘Long Legs’, ‘Angel’, ‘Clowns’'. The whole of Black Grape’s ‘It’s Great When You're Straight… Yeah’ LP and the entire Pills N Thrills & Bellyaches’ LP.”

T.JONES: “How do you think that you have matured, evolved or changed?”
PETE CARROLL: “I continue to evolve and stay true to the things I've always believed in. I'm not sure about maturing. I'm just getting older and seeing things a bit clearer.”

T.JONES: “What kind of styles of production do you see coming in the future?”
PETE CARROLL: “It's difficult to know where it’s going but we need to get back to a feeling. Everything is getting too predictable. The music industry needs to add a bit more risk and danger to the agenda. The industry needs a big shake up. Its f*cked.”

T.JONES: “Will there be any more Shaun Ryder collaborations?”
PETE CARROLL: “I've just finished a new record by Bez and Shaun Ryder called ‘Rattle My Head’, which is Bez's first record where he's doing a vocal. He comes across as a crazy revolutionary on a mission. I've also just finished some new tracks of Shaun's and will be getting back in the studio with Shaun to commence a new album. The next album will be very different to ‘Amateur Night’. The Bez and Shaun track will be out very soon. The video is brilliant.”

T.JONES: “What is Shaun Ryder doing these days?"
PETE CARROLL: “He is fighting a legal battle to stay out of jail. He's up against his former managers who want to screw him to the ground. He hasn't been able to earn any money for the past 6 years or more. It's an appalling situation, which has nearly killed him. He wants to get back to making music. We're also talking about touring with a band. He's also been doing a few DJ gigs. The BBC recently made a documentary about his legal situation and the impact it has had on him. They will be starting a follow up film soon.”

T.JONES: “What is in the future for Pete Carroll and Off World Sounds? Remixes? Collaborations? Albums? Tours?”
PETE CARROLL: “At the moment, the main focus is Shaun Ryder but I have new Ku-ling Brothers album, which is also very close to completion. I'm just about to put some music out on a new Japanese label and hopefully head over there soon.”

T.JONES: “Any final words for the people who will be reading this?”
PETE CARROLL: “Think for yourself. Don't let anyone push you around. Stay true to your beliefs. Fight for justice, freedom and peace. Don't let the twats ground you down.”