Subject: Re: Do Berean Dispensationalists Lie or Twist The Truth?

John, please! Don't be so rude.

I have not lied to you. And no one ever said we have the right to sin. You are stretching the truth here way too far. That is an accusation, not what we hold to doing in our lives. Paul said, "should we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid!" Why are you people so determined to spread that lie about us????? We do not promote sin. To the contrary, because we love God, we avoid sin. But all people sin and fall short of the glory of God. Jesus was the only person to ever live who lived entirely without sin. James said that if we say we don't sin, we are liars and the truth is not in us. Do you not know the scriptures? And you will be held personally accountable by God for lying about us too. It is an ironic fact of life that all accusers do not recognize they are guilty of the same things they accuse others of doing, and you are clearly one of them! Satan is an accuser too.

And no, Paul did not write things blindly. We never said that
either!!!!!! Look who is calling us liars. The book of Acts states, however, that Paul did receive ongoing revelations even after his conversion in Acts 9. Therefore, he didn't know everything on the day of conversion and continued to learn things directly from our risen Lord as Paul did, in fact receive ongoing instructions and revelations. Here some of the proof that comes to my mind. Read it for yourself, please and try to be civil, that is if you are really a Christian:

Acts 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou
have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Acts 9:16 For I will show him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

Gal 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.


-------Original Message-------

From: John
Date: 2/21/2004 10:38:43 PM
To: beholditisme@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Do Berean Dispensationalists Lie or Twist The Truth?

I understand that Berean Dispensationalist lie and twist the truth and scriptures to prove a point. Jesus because we are under grace doesn't give us a right to sin and tell lies!

Most of the writers of the New Testament were not apostles who were with Jesus other than John, and Peter and were not present in the events they were writing about! It's true that Jesus told Apostle John what to write and he told us this in the book of Revelation. But Apostle Paul never told us that what he had written he was told by Jesus to write or he was moved by the Holy Spirit to write things blindly without understanding? As a matter of fact Apostle Paul understood everything that he wrote about and he wrote about specific problems with specific remedies which were not to be applied
universally!

Now the four gospels are accurate because they have other witnesses and say the same things. But there are very few witnesses to the writings of Apostle Paul and many scholars don't believe that Apostle Paul wrote all the epistles that he is supposed to have written. Evangelicals and Bereans don't have a intelligent basis to defend their indefensible position that every comma, dot and word written by Apostle Paul in the New Testament is the Word of God and was inspired by God and not by Apostle Paul. There is quite a difference! And then they reject 1 Corinthians 12& 14 as not applicable today and not longer part of valid scripture. How foolish can you be and still breathe?

Jesus never said He would go away and send back the Greek Version of the New Testament and Apostle Paul, and Pastors or preachers who would lead and guide us into all truth? Rather He stated John 16:12 "I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
16:13 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
16:14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
16:15 "All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.

THE HOLY SPIRIT ALONE NOT MAN NOR APOSTLE PAUL IS QUALIFIED TO
INTERPRET SCRIPTURES. Those who think and say that Apostle Paul is special and so are his words are carnal and unscriptural based even on Apostle Paul's words:

1 Corinthians 1:12 Now I say this, that each of you says, "I am of Paul," or "I am of Apollos," or "I am of Cephas," or "I am of Christ."
1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people
but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.
3:2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able;
3:3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?
3:4 For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not carnal?
3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one?
3:6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase.
3:7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.

3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is
written, "He catches the wise in their own craftiness";
3:20 and again, "The LORD knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile."
3:21 Therefore let no one boast in men. For all things are yours:
3:22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas, or the world or life or death, or things present or things to come-all are yours.
3:23 And you are Christ's, and Christ is God's


To twist Paul's word and ideas and to say it's scripture is a lie from the pits of hell because it's a Logos word, not a Rhema word and we are to live only by the Rhema word, .every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.' " The Logos word is yesterday's manna and cannot be applicable for a specific need or situation while the Rhema word can because it's given and made real by the Holy Spirit who is the other Christ, the Helper, the Guide, the Spirit of Truth, and all that Christ was to His disciples.

Men are saved not based on Paul's words but on the word of Jesus who told all:

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' 7:24 "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:
7:25 "and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. 7:26 "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand:
7:27 "and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall."


----- Original Message -----
From: beholditisme@hotmail.com
To: John
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: Do Berean Dispensationalists Lie or Twist The Truth?


Sir, I beg your pardon.

I see that you do not fully understand our teachings. What your problem is, is that you don't understand what true grace is in the body of Christ today. You are stuck in another era with Jesus' earthly ministry. The grace Paul was talking about was not like the grace the apostles and Jesus dealt with when he was still alive. That was conditional grace. They had rules to follow and ordinances to keep. Jesus hadn't even gone to the cross yet, for gosh sakes! He was under the Law like any other Jew and was the only one ever to fulfill it.

And that's true and not a lie. The prophets did not fully understand the things they were writing about. These things were in the future. If God gave you some revelation to write about, you too, would not understand these things being not able to see them yet. You might say, wow. That sounds incredible! But you would still not really get the picture right. I agree with Benjamin if he did say that. Neither did the apostles understand what Jesus was talking about right up the cross and even afterwards, they still did not understand what the cross accomplished until Paul told them what the risen Christ told him. The scriptures make that plain too. (something more for you to get all bent out of shape about, I suppose)

Here are the scriptures which explain what Benjamin was referring to. Here is your answer plainly in scripture and written by Peter himself:

1 Pet 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1 Pet 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1 Pet 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

Peter also admits that Paul's writings are hard to understand so therefore, Paul's writings were different from Peter's writings which not hard to understand:

2 Pet 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

2 Pet 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

People who will not admit that Paul's writings are they, themselves forced to twist or wrest the scriptures to make them fit the other books of the Bible, and we believe that is why there are so many denominations, sects and cults today. None of them can get it straight and have to twist it some kind of way to make things fit when they do not. Grace believers are the only ones I have met up with (and I've tried them all) who don't have to force square pegs into round holes. They simply believe the verse as it was written and for whom it was written to and don't apply it to everyone because it is not for everyone. Someday God will tell them that and help you all to see.

Yes, I do believe Paul's writings were inspired of God and Paul agrees:

Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1 Tim 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
1 Tim 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity


Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

1 Cor 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received

1 Cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you,

And finally Paul says:

1 Cor 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 1 Cor 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Do I believe that Paul's was a true apostle and his writings were from the Lord? I do now. I certainly do. These writings just go to show that Paul went through the very same objections and persecutions that we are going through today in trying to defend his teachings. I know the truth when I hear it. No, my words change nothing and neither do your's. The facts remain that Jesus is the true author of Paul's writings and nothing can change that.- nothing!

How did you get my email address anyway?

In Christ,

-------Original Message-------

From: John
Date: 2/21/2004 8:16:52 PM
To: beholditisme@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Do Berean Dispensationalists Lie or Twist The Truth?

Your words didn't change the fact that Benjamin Webb a Berean Dispensationalist lied when he wrote: "1 Peter even states that the prophets did not even understand the things they were writing?"

You also didn't deny that fact that that idea that every comma, dot and word spoken by Apostle Paul in the New Testament is the Word of God and was inspired by God and not by Apostle Paul is indefensible?



----- Original Message -----
From: beholditisme@hotmail.com
To: John
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: Do Berean Dispensationalists Lie or Twist The Truth?


I don't know who you are or how you got my email address, but the things you have said here the Berean Dispensationalists (as you call them) have never said. It is clear to me that you really don't understand what they teach at all. As far as saying that they twist the truth, that is only your opinion according to the understanding that you have. At least you have admitted that Paul's writings were different. That is a good place to start. I used to believe that Paul didn't even belong in the Bible because the things that he wrote were never written in any of the other books or in the 4 gospels. Now, with the help of the grace believers (as they call themselves) I have been able to see clearly that Paul really does belong in the Bible. Things that never made any sense to me for years, have now become very clear and do make sense.

Sincerely and In Christ for 15 years, a former Baptist,