The e-mail that John was "spamming" everyone with, in which he called Berean Dispensationalists "Liars", is as follows:
John Wrote:
Do Berean Dispensationalists Lie or Twist The Truth?
The Scriptures state:
2PT 1:21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
Benjamin Webb Berean Dispensationalist wrote:
1 Peter even states that the prophets did not even understand the things they were writing!
NO WHERE DOES APOSTLE PETER OR THE BIBLE STATE OR IMPLY "that the prophets did not even understand the things they were writing!"
Some prophets could have spoken things they were told to speak by God but the writers of the New Testament most of whom, other than John, and Peter, were not one of the twelve apostles and were not present in the events they were writing about! They were not even prophets. So it's quite a stretch to imply they were prophets who were moved by the Holy Spirit and not by the words of others.
It's true that Jesus told Apostle John what to write and he told us this in the book of Revelation. But Apostle Paul never told us that what he had written he was told by Jesus to write or he was moved by the Holy Spirit to write things blindly without understanding. Apostle Paul understood everything that he wrote and he wrote about specific problems with specific remedies which were not to be applied universally!
Now the four gospels are accurate because they have other witnesses and say the same things. But there are very few witnesses to the writings of Apostle Paul and many scholars don't believe that Apostle Paul wrote all the epistles that he is supposed to have written. Before you classify me as a heretic, don't forget you are the liar who is twisting scriptures such as stated above, not me?
So how can you be considered as truthful and knowledgeable? You cannot! You don't have a intelligent basis to defend your indefendable position that every comma, dot and word spoken by Apostle Paul in the New Testament is the Word of God and was inspired by God and not by Apostle Paul. There is quite a difference! And then you reject 1 Corinthians 12& 14 as not applicable today and not longer part of valid scripture. How foolish can you be and still breathe? You are more of an unbeliever and heretic than I am!
…Jesus never said He would go away and send back the Greek Version of the New Testament and Apostle Paul, and Pastors or preachers who would lead and guide us into all truth? Rather He stated John 16:12 "I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 16:13 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 16:14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 16:15 "All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.
THE HOLY SPIRIT ALONE NOT MAN NOR APOSTLE PAUL IS QUALIFIED TO INTERPRET SCRIPTURES. Those who think and say that Apostle Paul is special and so are his words are carnal and unscriptural based even on Apostle Paul's words:
1 Corinthians 1:12 Now I say this, that each of you says, "I am of Paul," or "I am of Apollos," or "I am of Cephas," or "I am of Christ."
1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 3:2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3:3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? 3:4 For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not carnal? 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? 3:6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. 3:7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, "He catches the wise in their own craftiness"; 3:20 and again, "The LORD knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile." 3:21 Therefore let no one boast in men. For all things are yours: 3:22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas, or the world or life or death, or things present or things to come-all are yours. 3:23 And you are Christ's, and Christ is God's.
To twist Paul's word and ideas and to say its scripture is a lie from the pits of hell because it's a Logos word, not a Rhema word and we are to live only by the Rhema word, .every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.' " The Logos word is yesterday's manna and cannot be applicable for a specific need or situation while the Rhema word can because it's given and made real by the Holy Spirit who is the other Christ, the Helper, the Guide, the Spirit of Truth, and all that Christ was to His disciples. Men are saved not based on Paul's words but on the word of Jesus who told all:
Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 7:22 "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
7:24 "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:
7:25 "and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. 7:26 "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be
like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 7:27 "and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall."
Regards
John Davies
----- Original Message -----
From: "Benjamin Webb" <benwebb.geo@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: Sola Scriptura?
…On my site, I have laid out the Five Fundmentals I hold to; and if you believe those, I consider you a brother in Christ.
…Concerning your statement that "...Jesus taught us to trust the Old Testament Scriptures...", you must tell me which Old Testament scriptures you believe He was referring to. There are two different versions: the Masoretic Text, which forms the basis for most Bibles today; and the Septuagint, which is different from the Masoretic Text. From the evidence I have seen, I have concluded that the Masoretic Text is accurate and infallible. But there are certain factions
who all themselves "Christian"; yet they don't believe certain teachings that are found in the New Testament scriptures. These people cast doubt upon God's word by referring to the Septuagint in support of certain unscriptural doctrines. If you are one of those, this conversation is at an end.
Yet you state, "But in reality did the words that Paul write proceed from God? The problem with 'Verbal Inspiration' of scriptures is that it sounds wonderful in theory but in fact we do not have any original manuscripts to show what the very words of the scripture were given to the writers of the New Testament"
The problem with your above statement is that we don't have any original manuscripts to show what the very words of the OLD TESTAMENT were, either.
Nor did Jesus and His apostles. Yet we still believe that God inspired the Old Testament writers to write down His words inerrantly, and that they were accurately preserved in copies until the time of the Lord and His apostles - even though small portions of the Old Testament scriptures were written in Chaldee, and not Hebrew! How can we trust God to preserve His words in the Old Testament, and doubt His ability to preserve His words in the New Testament?
Yes, all Christians are indeed an epistle of Christ. 2 Corinthians chapter 3 says we are. And I also agree that we should depend on the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit never casts doubt upon the word of God. Throughout the Bible, no man of God ever cast doubt upon the written word of God. Not one. But Satan did. And he still does today.
Nor did any man of God ever question His ability to guide them in translating His words. Which is why many New Testament quotations of the Old Testament do not match word-for-word. The thought is the same, but the words are different. You and I both agree that these men of God who wrote the scriptures were all led by the Spirit of God. Your question, as I understand it, concerns whether or not the individual words themselves were inspired. Well, since you and I are only fallible men, and not apostles or Bible writers, we must base our facts upon the already-written word of God. So I do believe in the Divine plenary verbal inspiration of scripture. 1 Peter even states that the prophets did not even understand the
things they were writing! Why, then, should they be left to choose the words, when they didn't even understand what they wrote? This shows the inaccuracy of your statement, "In other words in theory the writers were not left to choose the words". This is not a theory. This is a fact, confirmed by Peter himself.
Ben Webb
http://www.oocities.org/benwebb.geo/links.html
Berean Dispensationalist
http://www.oocities.org/benwebb.geo/
and
King James Bible, Dispensationally
http://www.geocitiescom/kjvdispensational/