A Barbaric Practice - An Interview with Majda Rizvi


 

By: Huma Hashmi

'The government should not have a problem implementing or passing a law in regard to honour killing because quite a few loopholes are there in the existing law,' says former Justice and champion of women's rights, Majda Rizvi.

It is time to sit up and take notice. Honour killing or karo-kari is a term which makes us feel ashamed. Why? Because human-rights groups and the international community are raising a hue and cry over it.

Honour killing mostly occurs in the remote areas of Pakistan and the instigators or offenders are mostly uneducated. How many more women will be killed before something actually gets done about it is a question that is widely being asked these days. The practice of honour killing is barbaric; so why is it being condoned? Helplessness and inaction seem to be the two operative words at play here, while lethargy and resignation also seem to have crept in.

Justice (retd) Majda Rizvi is an advocate and champion of women's rights. The first woman judge of the High Court of Pakistan and chairperson of the National Commission on the Status of Women, Dawn Magazine recently spoke to her on the disturbing issue of karo-kari.

Q: On May 16th, President Gen Pervez Musharraf called for a law to "ban" honour killing. Do you think that finally something concrete will be done about it, or is it simply rhetoric to appease various HR bodies?

A: I think as far as honour killing is concerned, something is being done. The government, opposition as well as the Sindh Assembly have moved a bill. The National Commission on the Status of Women has also conducted a research on the Law of Qisas and Diyat, which is a part of the Pakistan Penal Code (PPC). This is the law that facilitates honour killing, because in Islam there is nothing in the name of killing for honour. This is clear and simple murder. Our religion proclaims that no one can take the life of another human being, except through the court and by the process of law.

The government should not have a problem implementing or passing a law in regard to honour killing because quite a few loopholes are there in the existing law. My report will be coming out very soon and we are going to pinpoint the lacunas in this law, which can be easily removed and amended. I think one can work on this. Again, as far as this issue in concerned, the government can take effective steps to curb the menace of honour killing.

Q: Instead of going lax like in Section 300 (1) of the Pakistan Penal code of Qisas and Diyat, where perpetrators are given latitude by way of "grave and sudden provocation", shouldn't the punishment be severe and exemplary?

A: As far as "grave and sudden provocation" is concerned, it is not there anymore in the law. The Qisas and Diyat ordinance, which has been merged into the PPC, has taken away the provision of "grave and sudden provocation." This was one of the exceptions in the old law. It was being used as mitigating circumstances and reducing the punishment to the minimum. Islam says that no one has the right to take another person's life on any pretext, except through the court of law. Actually, what is being suggested is that the people involved in honour killing should be pinpointed as murderers, investigation should be carried out and all the evidence must come on record.

Q: Shouldn't the clerics take up the responsibility of de-programming misguided people as the practice of karo-kari goes against the teachings of Islam?

A: Yes. Clerics should take up the responsibility, specially in the Friday sermon. The Pesh Imam should teach men folk to respect women and that they are equal to men in the sense that women need respect as a mother, sister, wife, daughter, etc. She has been given rights by Allah and any violations in this regard must be properly addressed.

Q: As ours is a male-dominated society, how can uneducated women be empowered to refuse to accept what they perceive as fate?

A: You see, most of the times, women are well aware of the wrongs they are being subjected to, such as physical violence, but they feel helpless in our male-dominated society. Crimes such as honor killing are perpetrated by people who have clout, so the government machinery along with clerics need to put a stop to it.

Q: Why is the police ineffectual in bringing to book the perpetrators of honour killing?

A: The police is quite aware of what is happening, but they mostly arrive late, apart for a few who are sensitized and take prompt action. But mostly, the police is aware of what is happening and deliberately avoid arresting the offenders. They are reluctant to even register an FIR and are equally responsible. In some villages, people have beaten up policemen and attacked police stations. The government should see to it that police personnel, when recruited, must have proper background. There was a time when even minor details were taken into consideration while recruiting policemen, such as the environment they came from, references, accountability, checks and balances - all these combined to make the police machinery work more efficiently and honestly.

Under the new police ordinance, a lot of incentives are being given, things are being reorganized, committees are being formed, etc. Even though the government is doing all it can, corruption has seeped deep into the very fabric of society and it will take time to root it out.

Q: It is at the ground level, the panchayat and jirga, that the root of the problem lies. How can these centuries-old traditions be altered?

A: A new judgment has been passed by the Sindh High Court according to which panchayats and jirgas have been banned. Public reaction to it was that some considered moving to Punjab and Balochistan. I have made a copy of the judgment and sent it to the Law Commission, to be put before the Chief Justice and others. It should be taken on as a national issue and the same rule and law should apply to all the provinces. If this is accomplished and all provinces endorse it, we will be able to stop the panchayats and jirgas from taking illegal action.

Q: Since there are more women in politics than ever before, what role should they play in helping to bring about a much-needed change in the system? Why aren't these women more vocal in their support?

A: I think they are quite vocal. They try to do the best they can, but face constraints. Quite a few women parliamentarians and even some men belonging to both the government and the opposition are supportive of issues pertaining to women. Now, they talk about karo-kari, siyah-kari, vani, swana and even Hudood laws.

Q: Many sexual abuse and rape cases go unpunished while the term karo-kari in itself seems to imply that the murder is justified. By punishing the killers, will it not impede other vigilantes from committing such crimes?

A: It's a question of murder, and murder means the death sentence or life imprisonment. These are the punishments provided by law. Karo-kari is not recognized by the law, so the cases have to be perceived as murder and tried as such. But in reality, people settle for "compounding" by exchanging a small sum of money or even forgive the perpetrators and let them go scot-free. This is exactly what we are trying to prevent.

Q: What you mean by "compounding"?

A: Compounding is mentioned in the Holy Quran, where the legal heirs of a victim, without any pressure, can forgive the perpetrator or accept blood-money as compensation. This was to stop vengeance in the generations to come. What we are trying to provide through the amendment is that one can compound, but first the entire evidence should be put on record; the offender admit his guilt that he is the killer; his name should be on record stating him to be a killer, so that even if there is compounding, society should be aware of the act. The courts, meanwhile, should place a monitoring mechanism so that he should not repeat the offence in future.

But the Holy Quran doesn't mean to compound by pressure, in fact it has specifically been mentioned that there should be no fraud, no clout or pressure of any kind. Then only it should be accepted. Ironically, this act of compounding lets the offenders go scot-free, as the application is misused most of the time.

Q: President Musharraf seems sincere in eradicating this evil from society, but realistically speaking, will the task be daunting as some religious groups will try and oppose any changes he tries to make in the legal system?

A: President Musharraf is sincere. He is a progressive-minded individual who has got a vision, which is why I joined the NCSW. He has set-up this commission solely for women who need help.

Q: Changes can only be brought about if the laws are amended to protect women. What is preventing these much-needed amendments?

A: If we talk about Hudood laws, the injunctions laid down in Islam and the Holy Quran are irrevocable and unchangeable, but the law we have today is man-made and prone to mistakes. There is no mention of death by stoning in the Holy Quran or being whipped for a crime. There will be no consensus on issues as viewpoints will differ. Which is why we should only stick with the Holy Quran and sunnah. Our society should be truly Islamic in letter and spirit.

Q: Of the 1339 documented honour killings during the five-year period of 1998-2002, a total of 1,035 FIRs were registered, yet only 202 or less than 20 per cent of those were put behind bars. Why?

A: There are many cases that aren't even reported. Every day you pick up the newspaper and find one or two cases. With numerous rape and honor killings taking place and village elders or people with clout involved in these cases, the police seems incapable of doing anything. Until there is some sort of pressure put on the police, such cases will go unnoticed and unregistered.

Courtesy: http://dawn.com

 

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