Hi Thanks for the very fast response. Whilst I enjoy the detective work of finding names and dates and solving mysteries (the crossword puzzle aspect) what really interests me is historical causes and motivations.

I should love to know just why John Jackson Whinray and his family moved - was it desperation, or opportunity knocking? What work they could find when they arrived? Did they stay near their arrival point or head for the outback?

It sounds as though his son Jeremiah took seriously the instruction to go forth and multiply.

Various members of the UK Whinray family are in fact going to stage a reunion (if you can call it a reunion when there has been no contact between the families for 150 years!) to celebrate in January 2008 the 200th wedding anniversary of John Jackson Whinray's parents, Tom and Jane Whinray. Any Australian descendants would be most welcome, but I can't see myself phoning Whinrays in Victoria out of the blue and issuing the invite....

Are you yourself a descendant of John Jackson Whinray?

Just to recap, John J was one of three brothers. What I have which I could readily send if you are interested is:
1. Short summary of history of the Carnforth Whinrays from 1664, and conjecturally prior to that.
2. Detailed notes on the family from 1664 to 1819, when Tom Whinray and Jane née Jackson for reasons unknown moved 15 miles inland. Then both died within the year.
3. Detailed notes on Jane Jackson's family.
4. UK Census etc notes on John Jackson Whinray's branch, most of whom emigrated in 1856.
5. UK Census etc notes on Thomas Whinray's branch
6. UK Census etc notes on James Whinray's branch
Unfortunately the family trees I produce on sheets of A2 paper, which clarify it all, are nigh on impossible to transmit by computer.
I am sending item 4, which is the briefest, in pdf form, to see if you can read it.
Paul

Elizabeth,
I am a descendant of John Jackson Whinray and Elizabeth Leech. His daughter Elizabeth married William Baillie whose youngest son, Kenneth is my grandfather. Kenneth had two daughters, Janita Marie (my mother) and Valerie. Janita had 11 children and Valerie had no children.
We are all living in Australia and would be interested in seeing details regarding the Whinray family. My grandfather died when my mother was only 18 and they never kept in touch with his family so we are currently trying to track them all down now.
Very grateful for the information you have posted on your website as I know Primrose Tayler (Baillie) who I have just discovered tonight is my second cousin relayed the information about a reunion. Gotta love the web.
Cheers
Rachel Elverd (Murphy)

Thomas Whinray and Jane née Jackson had 3 sons, John Jackson born 20 Sept 1808, Thomas born 7 January 1816 and James, probably born early in 1819; and 4 daughters. The move to Clapham became a disaster. Jane died, presumably in childbirth, and was buried the same day in February 1819 that James was christened. Thomas was left with six surviving children all aged under ten. Perhaps the stress was too much for him: he died the following year. How exactly they survived and who looked after their financial interests remains unclear, but I have found five of the six in the 1841 Census, so survive they did and they had the capital for all three brothers to set up in business.

John Jackson Whinray, the eldest son, married Elizabeth Leech (born about 1805 at Clapham, died 11/9/1873 in Australia) on 9 Oct 1828 at Clapham. In the 1841 Census, he is found lodging in Austwick and working as a cattle dealer. He may have been unsuccessful, because ten years later he is an agricultural labourer in Toxteth, Liverpool, but he and the rest of the family (with the exception of the eldest son Thomas) decided to emigrate and arrived in Australia on the Arabia in January 1857. He died 1 April 1882.

His son Jeremiah married Sarah Twite in Australia, and they had fourteen children. I assume some of these moved on again, to New Zealand, where there is a Whineray National Park, and Sir Wilson Whineray is one of Rugby Unions’s legendary players, captain of the best ever All Black side. But this may have been a separate emigration.

CENSUS INFORMATION
In 1891 at 67 Wagstaff Street, Toxteth Park

Thomas Winray 58 1833 Clapham, Craven Cattle dealer
Thomas died at Toxteth Q1 1895, unmarried as far as I can ascertain

In 1881 at 31 Grey Street, Toxteth Park
Thomas Whinray 48 1833 Clapham Cow keeper
Elizabeth Wright 60 1821 Wigton, Cumberland Dom serv
James Nelson 16 1867 Liverpool Dom. serv.

In 1871 at 28 Avison Street Toxteth Park (indexed Whinsay)
Thomas Whinray 39 1832 Clapham Cow keeper
Christopher 20 1851 Clapham Cow keeper (nephew)
Elizabeth (widow) 46 1825 Wigton Servant
Anthony Metcalf 10 1861 Lancaster Scholar
In 1861 at Newby
Mary Leech 77 1784 Clapham
William Leech 53 1808 Austwick unmarried son, ag. lab.
Christ. Whinray 11 1850 Clapham grandson

In 1861 in Toxteth Park
Thomas is a boarder in the house of John Walton. Occupation cattle dealer.

In 1851 at 7 Court Holland, no. 7, Toxteth Park Liverpool
John 40 1811 Lancashire Labourer, farm
Elizabeth 44 1807 Clapham Yorks
Thomas 20 1831 Clapham Yorks
Jeremiah 8 1843 Clapham Yorks
Elizabeth 5 1846 Clapham Yorks
Ellen 3 1848 Clapham Yorks

In 1851 at Eldroth Hall
Mary Whinray 14 1837 Clapham House servant
In 1851 at Manor House, Ingleton in the house of Edward Harrison
Jane Whineray 22 1829 Clapham House servant

In 1851 at Coldcoates, Ingleton
Fanny Mason 62 1789 Hesket, Cumberland Late farmer’s wife
Christopher Winneray 1 1850 Clapham (lodger)
Fanny might be the widow of Isaac Mason of Bentham, llabourer

In 1841 at Watson House Austwick, in the household of Thomas Oldfield
John 1811 cattle dealer
Thomas 1816 butcher
(In the same household, the wife and daughter of Thomas Oldfield and Ann and Alice Windsor, 50 and 40 respectively.)

In Newby, in the household of Mary Leech (independent means) NB This is the mother of John Jackson Whinray’s wife
Elizabeth Whinaray 1806 née Leach or Leech b 27 Oct 1805
Thomas Whinaray 1831
Christopher Whinaray 1835
Mary Whinaray 1837
Catherine Whinaray 1840

John Jackson and Elizabeth christened the following children At Clapham:
18/1/1829 Jane
17/10/1830 Thomas
19/9/1832 Mary
21/9/1834 Christopher
And elsewhere (or possibly in a non-conformist chapel rather than C of E)
c1837 Mary
c1839 Catherine ?1839 Settle
Also Jeremiah Q 3 1842
Elizabeth 1846 Q2 1845 Settle district
Ellen 1848 Q3 1847 Settle district