Shay Baby - July 2004

with Eric Hutchinson

What was it like working with Bruce during the Keith Olsen Sessions?

Bruce had sent Keith and me one of the ballads for Iron Maiden and they wanted us to mix it. They just wanted another viewpoint of mixing. So, we did it and he was impressed. He said that was the first time he had heard his vocals like that. He met with Keith and me and we decided that we were going to do his solo album. We started working, I was engineering and Keith was producing. Those songs were a different direction. We were using one of Bruce's young guitar players that he liked, Myke Gray from Skin, so we wound up working with him and then producing a bunch of the Skin stuff.

What do you recall from the Keith Olsen sessions? Does anything stand out?

The approach was unique because we had two studios going at the same time. Keith was creating grooves, synthesizers, keyboards then I would get it and go with Myke, and we would just smash it with guitars. It was neat because it was Myke and I doing all the heavy stuff and they were doing all of the other stuff.

Were the mixes you and Keith did for Iron Maiden ever used?

I am not sure if they were ever released. While we were doing that stuff we were getting along well. Keith, Bruce and I would lock ourselves and do the vocals. I would spend a lot of extra time in the studio at the end of the day putting little mixes together. Our vibe was you mix through the whole record constantly creating and building the song around a basic mix. One night Bruce had come by, I was working on the Tribe of Gypsies, and I said I want to play something for you and hear what you think. He just fell in love with the Tribe. Then Bruce said, "How would you like to do other songs with me?" I said I would like to get Roy Z and you together to write some tracks and I will help arrange them and pick which ones we use. I said I would love to do a record with you where we use African, Spanish and all of these different rhythms all these wild different percussion instruments from all over the world and we take a street urban band, like the Tribe of Gypsies, and have them as the back up band. He started to fall in love with the idea. So, I had Roy work on songs that were heavy and different. I wanted a song where we could do a symphony of guitars. I really wanted to exploit Roy as a guitarist and create something different from Iron Maiden. At the end of the Keith sessions Bruce asked me to come to England and work on this idea of using the Tribe of Gypsies. The Tribe had never been anywhere and now they were on a plane going to England recording with Bruce Dickinson. I am sure if I would not have introduced Roy to Bruce, I doubt that he would have gotten any recognition. He could have wasted away in LA unnoticed.

So, you were responsible for Bruce's future solo efforts with Roy.

I am definitely the person and the catalyst that introduced Bruce to Roy and said lets do this together. I was surprised when I got the call from Bruce to produce him. I was overly flattered. I worked harder on that album than I have ever worked on any other album because there was so much at stake. I worked around the clock. We did the basic tracks at the Who studio (Haunted by Keith Moon) which is in a bad London neighborhood by the Towers from the Pink Floyd album. Weird things were happening. The microphone stands were moving. We would tune all the drums them when we would come in the next day and all the drums were out of tune. Then one day we came back and there was gook on the skins, like ectoplasm. I went to the bathroom and the knobs moved. It was nuts. We were getting these great takes then we would listen to it and there would be dropouts so, we would have to do another take. We ended up working in three different studios. I think it is a great album. I always thought it went unnoticed for whatever reason. I always thought it was very innovative and still today is unique.

Looking back on it 10 years later, what would you change about it?

I would have maintained a little more control over Roy Z. I think I gave Roy too much freedom because I had so much respect for his talent. I do not think he was mentally mature to the level to handle that. I have the highest opinion of Bruce as a person and as an artist. I have a respect for Roy Z's guitar playing but as a person not at all and I have no qualms saying that.

What were your favorite songs?

I love "Cyclops." That bass grooves and we did not loop or anything. Everything was really played and that is a long song. I probably spent a good 8 hours in the studio, with the bass player (Eddie Casillas), working on that song to get the bass right on. No just perfect but to where it had a life. If you listed to "Cyclops", you are going hear something different each time. There are some many little nuisances and so many little things happening. Another one I love is "Tears of the Dragon."

Did "Tears of the Dragon" originate from the Keith sessions?

Yes, there were two versions (one with Keith and one with me). Keith had a great vision and it was unique and great stuff and it was not any better or worse it was just different. My version just rocked a little more. It was kind of Bruce's "Stairway to Heaven."

Lyrically, I thought there were high points and low points. Do you feel the same way?

Some things were brilliant. Especially if you have a couple of songs, where the lyrics are just awesome and if you have other ones where there good lyrics then that brings your attention to that. I do know it was an act of love with Bruce and he really wanted to do something different. He had the courage to just go for it. We used 1950's Fender guitars, vintage Gretsch guitars and all sorts of wild classic guitars. We even hunted down a Hendrix amp and we used some of Brian May's amps, who was recording at the same studio. So, we got to put Roy's stuff through the amps that Brian used with Queen. We spent tons on money on these different guitars to give it that unique sound.

It seems like you had a pretty good deal of creative license and they followed many of your ideas.

Yeah, I think it was a real collaboration. I would present different ways of arranging the songs and I always felt that we had good direction from Bruce. You could not ask for a better artist for a producer/engineer to work with. He was the best. We went out and ate, drank and laughed. We were like best friends. I actually miss Bruce a lot. That was the best part of the whole thing was having that much respect for somebody.

When was the last time you talked or saw Bruce?

Probably 1996. Now we have since exchanged Christmas cards and pictures of our kids. After Bruce, I did The Tribe of Gypsies stuff and I had many problems with Roy.

What are some of the latest projects that you have completed or are working on now?

In the past couple of years, I have been spending time with my family. I went on the road quite a few years ago with Warrant and that was a blast. I did there all of their greatest hits live. Sanctuary called me up and now wants to release it in 5.1 in DVD and CD. I did a couple of comedy records. I worked with Jonathan Winters, the comedian, which was unbelievable. There is a girl I'm real hot on. Her name is Rene. She sounds like Billy Holliday but she is white. In fact I even sent tapes to Keith and said let us co-produce it and he fell in love with it. It is something that I am hoping will happen because I think she is unique. I found her and she is awesome and talented.